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In this Discussion
- Ammit August 2017
- friesianpaints August 2017
- Haltanny August 2017
- kassierae August 2017
- ObsidianKitsune August 2017
- ParadiseLodge August 2017
- RobbinsRoost August 2017
- RoseFlute August 2017
- Salvistar August 2017
- StarfireAcres August 2017
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Question on apps and fading
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I noticed a bunch of my leopards are greying out their spots and none have the grey gene. Varnish doesn't affect spots IRL but does it in the game? Or is it a glitch? Been very careful to keep grey out of my lines so I'm a bit bummed that my pretty apps I've worked to get are looking grey :(
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All appys in the game fade out to grey/white I'm fairly sure :)
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Varnish does act like a roaning grey, and the whitening space can look like the edges of white spots are changing, but it's just the varnish. You can get Appaloosas with lower varnish levels, but most of the time they will sort of grey out by the end of their lives.
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Bummer.... wish they were like real horses but now I guess I don't need to waste more gmts to make apps if they don't get to keep the look :(
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I raise apps IRL and have a varnish near leopard mini stallion that is 17yr old and minis seem to get way more Varnish than big horses lol. Varnish only affects the "solid, non app" areas, the app spots never change unless grey is involved. Wish it worked that way in the game, but wonder if it can't be programmed to recognise the difference in the game is the reason
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Varnish is a real thing. :)
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I know varnish is real, just doesn't work that way naturally :)
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Oh, you mean the spots cut through the varnish, too? Huh...that would be cool. :D
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All of his grey looking areas were solid black when younger but his original spots never changed but did reveal more spots because of the varnish -
Aha. Shiny pony. :) Maybe it's on Ammit's Eventually-but-in-a-While list.
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In real life, varnish can actually reveal spots that were hidden in the solid parts. :)
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In real life it absolutely can fade out the spots. In the game it can reveal hidden spots, leave spots and more.
Just like real life some horses vanish completely some don't.
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Do you have an example of a real horse where varnish affected the spots. I've read info from the Appaloosa Project researchers, equine tapestry, and others and all say varnish does not affect the spots, can cause more to be visible but will not fade them. And I have never seen one that did so. Just curious since I study genetics very heavily.
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Ugh phone is acting up, posted again on accident
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I knew one a fully varnish out white leopard personally. When you bathed her all the spots would come back under the skin. Also knew a blanket pony that lost her spots with age. I have never seen any of those people say it can never affect the spots. It often doesn't affect spots but it often doesn't in the game as well.
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I would think those are grey. Lesli has even said somewhere that varnish doesn't affect the spots. In all my years knowing appaloosas and appaloosa breeders I have never seen a horse lose spots unless it was also grey.
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No this horse was papered, no gray any where near there. Where has she said it NEVER affects spots. How on earth would you prove that anyways?
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And no there wasn't a gray stud on the farm. ;)
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I didn't say she said never. I said I have seen it said by her and others that it doesnt affect the spots. Grey is so easily missed in appaloosas. I would imagine there would be more examples of varnish affecting the spots, wouldn't you? I've seen so many appaloosas in my life it would make your head spin. But, to make sure I'm correct, I will ask others.
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Peacock apps clearly show varnish eating into the spots. They may not get it all but they are vanishing the spots. The calcium channel changes between inside and outside the spot area cause the roaned edges.
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http://www.huntandjump.com/forum/discussion/3/how-to-get-help-from-an-administratorThanked by 1ObsidianKitsune -
Don't accuse the game of whiting out every app and being unrealistic when a 10 second search can show that isn't the case at all. ;)
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This is my beautiful appy/brindle mare last season she had beautiful dark stripes and without any fading of the stripes she just turned pure white with no stripes at all and she is only 4 it broke my heart this is a why I don't breed for appy
Beautiful Brindle G1 -
I didn't accuse the game of anything. I said in real life varnish doesn't completely wipe out spots.
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I was not referring to your post.
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I had a real life appy and when she turned 17 she still had her spots I guess horses turn white at different ages but I never knew appys turned all white at a certain age especially only 4 years old like my horse above
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All I know is that a lot of my favorite horses in the game are losing their spots , and since I haven't seen a single one IRL do so, I would say it is pretty rare :). Peacock spots have no connection to varnish and isn't causing spots to fade just have a roan border. Even Paint horses can get that around their markings. If I found an app that had lost all spots I would want a dna test to prove absence of grey. Just my opinion.
Ill try to find the link again on equine tapestry that discusses spots and varnishThanked by 1StarfireAcres -
"The varnish pattern does not cause the whole horse to fade, though. The spots on a pattern do not roan out. That is actually the easiest way to determine that grey is present in appaloosas; if the actual spots are fading, then the horse is probably has the grey gene.
That is one of the reasons that true nose-to-toes leopards have always been so popular with breeders. Because their pattern is made up almost completely of spots, they retain their contrast even as they age. Breeders have selected for horses that keep their color longer because contrast is what makes appaloosa patterns attractive. Roaning, like greying, tends to take that away."
Source:
http://equinetapestry.com/2011/09/how-appaloosa-patterns-work-part-2/ -
Spots and varnish are caused by the same mechanism and the same gene. Yes it is causing the fading.
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@friesianpaints
I love Leslie Kathman and her in-depth study of equine genetics. As a former model equine artist, I had several of her books and many other equine color genetic books. Appys are a complicated color jigsaw puzzle, a cornucopia of color possibilities. Varnish is one gene and spotting is of another gene. I had a varnish colt that started out all black except a blanket with a few spots over the rump. By the time he reached two, the blanket got bigger and more spots appeared. He ended up looking like a Semi-leopard with some varnishing on his neck. His spots never did fade. :) -
Absolutely not true and proven by gene analysis. It's been known to be one gene for absolutely years.
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I have seen real life Appaloosa colored horses that lost their spots. Appaloosa breeders tend to breed for more non-fading spots, but there are appy spotted horses Especially in other breeds that fade out. Some of them only fade a little over a long period of time, which may not be noticeable. Some fade quite a lot rather quickly, which is much more apparent. There are lots of appy in the game that still have spots. I suspect it is genetic here, so you should be able to breed for it. Look for the offspring of non-faded horses and breed them together.#28036
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Like Haltanny and Ammit have been saying, it seems that the spots and varnishing are caused by the same gene. Since we know for a fact that the game has a specific way of choosing spot sizes and that one can breed for a certain spot size, I would presume that one could breed for how long the spots stay. Like Haltanny said, find old horses who still have their spots and see if you can get eggs/straws from them to continue on their genetics. I would go for horses that are 18-20 and still have their spots, since they most likely wouldn't loose it soon.Producer of Volcanic Glass Drafts. Lapisobsidianus.
Prices are almost always negotiable. -
If you do a quick search, there are some 16/17 year old appys that are up for public stud that don't seem to have lost their spots.Producer of Volcanic Glass Drafts. Lapisobsidianus.
Prices are almost always negotiable. -
Yes you can absolutely breed for longer staying spots. Just like real life.
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There's so much going on with appy I had no clue about!SALVISTAR PERFORMANCE HORSES
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