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HunterUnderSaddleGirl · Aug 3, 2017 5:58 PM

Guess I need to brush up on my Classic Champagne genetics... If you removed the champagne from a classic champagne what would you get? A black like this one? Or just what happened this time... (Black from two classic champagne parents). I think this would also help me in figuring out how to get classic champagne without just breeding classic champagne to classic champagne.

Think she's pretty though, and bummed she didn't even make it past BA. (And fairly low PT for a gen 3 though right?)

3G Waisting It

Waldgraf · Aug 3, 2017 6:05 PM

That's correct! Classic champagne is from champagne gene on top of a black horse (E- aa). Amber champagne is classic or wild bay (E- A or A+). Gold champagne is any chestnut (ee) and Sable (my favorite) is brown (E- AtAt or Ata).

HunterUnderSaddleGirl · Aug 3, 2017 6:08 PM

Oh, ok, thank you. I was wondering about how to add rabicano/tobiano/appy to my champagne line, so in theory I could cross my black/appy/toby/rabi with my champagnes and get some of both?

2G BSS Finally Gorgeous

Do you have an example of a sable champagne?

HunterUnderSaddleGirl · Aug 3, 2017 6:09 PM

Also, do you know why the combo of these two would be lethal?

2G CCH Forbidden Ransom

2G CCH BootHigh Champagne</a

Waldgraf · Aug 3, 2017 6:13 PM

If you bred him to homozygous classic champagne mares, you'd be guaranteed to get classic champagne foals! He'd be able to pass on the appaloosa and rabicano genes. However, he doesn't have tobiano so the mare would have to have that to pass it on to foals!

Waldgraf · Aug 3, 2017 6:15 PM

W2 can be lethal with W20 if the foal has extensive white factor. Champagne genes have nothing to do with the lethality, it just may be a matter of bad luck and the foal got the high end of the white factor spectrum.

HunterUnderSaddleGirl · Aug 3, 2017 6:15 PM

Wow! Super excited now! Glad that this.... surprise happened! And I've been having such a hard time finding classic champagne horses. So even if I found myself a nice homo classic champagne stallion and switched it, and bred to black mares I could do it that way.

HunterUnderSaddleGirl · Aug 3, 2017 6:16 PM

Oh bummer about that foal. Is it high risk factor for those two, and never repeat, or it was just a weird thing...?

Waldgraf · Aug 3, 2017 6:21 PM

A gold champagne could work, as well, if the agouti gene codes for black (ee aa). Gold champagnes seem a little easier to find then classics. The resulting foals will be Ee aa which will all be classic champagnes, though they wouldn't breed true in the next generation. You would get a mix of gold and classic in the next generation.

As to that cross, I'm not sure! I don't know if there are underlying factors that make it likely the foal would have a high white factor. Someone may have more info on that then me!

HunterUnderSaddleGirl · Aug 3, 2017 6:26 PM

So... for looking for potential champagne horses to cross with the black they need to be aa?

ObsidianKitsune · Aug 3, 2017 6:30 PM

Splash increases the WF, and I remember reading somewhere that WF is kind of inherited from parents. You have a large and medium WF, with splash in there as well, so maybe just bad luck in the foal getting the highest possible combination?

Cheers · Aug 3, 2017 6:31 PM

@HUSG--

On the lethal foal

Your stallion is W2 and Large White factor.

Your mare is W20 and Splash and Medium White factor.

There is only a 1/4 chance that a foal will get both W2 and W20 from these two parents, but I expect because both have relatively high White factor that most of those foals will be lethal, especially if they also get their mom's splash. That said, there is a 3/4 chance that they will get no Kit genes or only one and be fine. If 1/4 is an acceptable risk to you, I would keep breeding these two. I would probably resist crossing him with homozygous W20 mares though!

Cheers · Aug 3, 2017 6:33 PM

Also, when I was working on my classic champagne and brown lines, there is a Black herd helper that is super helpful. It's not the ones that give you homozygous or heterozygous E--you still get bays with those. There's one that only gives you black horses and it's a Rank 1 so you can get a ton of them. It's a great way to get lots of mares for these sorts of breeding projects!

HunterUnderSaddleGirl · Aug 3, 2017 6:39 PM

Ok, I guess I don't want to breed them again then. Maybe I'll try to cross her with something else. Maybe the black I mentioned. Or just my misc. horses.

@Cheers, ok, thank you. I'll definitely look for that now. Wish I had known when I was having such a hard time finding classic champagne horses. Oh well. Now I know!

Waldgraf · Aug 3, 2017 6:42 PM

I breed quite a bit for champagnes and may end up with some classics this breeding season. Are you only looking for warmbloods? And any particular generation?

HunterUnderSaddleGirl · Aug 3, 2017 6:44 PM

That would be awesome! Thank you! Mostly gen 2, and starting to get gen 3. Since classics are so hard for me to find any weight is cool, although I actually have an RH line going, and a draft one. Try to avoid the WB's (just because I like making things hard on myself, lol)

SandycreekFarm · Aug 3, 2017 8:30 PM

I'd be willing to sell you one of these Classic Champagnes, if any interest you.

http://hj2.huntandjump.com/adv_search.php?runsearch=1&status=any&ageg=3&agel=15&agee=&erag=&eral=&erae=&heightg=&heightl=&heighte=&boneg=&bonel=&bonee=&f_basic=none&f_adv=none&f_limit=25&stallion=1&mare=1&bty=1&lined=lined&foundation=1&name=&name_lm=like&color=classic+champagne&color_lm=like&owner=441&owner_lm=like&breeder=&breeder_lm=like&sire=&sire_lm=like&dam=&dam_lm=like&barn=&barn_lm=like&pasture=&past_lm=like&tattoo=&tat_lm=like&tat_and=and&club=&bc_lm=like&bc_and=and&e1=&e2=&a1=&a4=&a2=&a3=&f1=&f2=&p1=&p2=&s1=&s2=&s3=&c1=&c2=2&c3=&d1=&d2=2&g1=&g2=&ch1=&ch2=&z1=&z2=&sa2=&sa1=&kit1=&kit2=&kit3=&kit4=&kit5=&kit6=&kit10=&kit11=&kit12=&kit7=&kit8=&kit9=&sp1=&sp2=&sp3=&spM=&pax31=&pax32=&rb1=&rb2=&o1=&o2=&l1=&l2=&ice1=&icei=&ice2=&ice3=&ice4=&ice5=&ice6=&ice7=&ice8=2&ice9=&ice10=&ice11=&ice12=&ice13=&nexn=&nexx=&nexr=&nexg=&nexb=&brindle1=1&brindle2=1&wf1=1&wf2=1&wf3=1&wf4=1&wf5=1&wf6=1

HunterUnderSaddleGirl · Aug 3, 2017 8:38 PM

Ooh, they are all pretty! First choice would be the draft mare.

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