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Ritsika · Feb 10, 2017 7:39 PM

SH Doctor Treating Tree
Ee aAt CC dd gg ff SstySsty pp KittoKit OlwO WF: Light

I recently breed some foundation horses and I got this lovely colt. At first glance, I thought he was black then realized his color testing came back Brown Tobiano Frame. After the fact I saw the distinct browning near his nose and on his belly, but he is the darkest brown I've breed yet. I'm nearly certain he is homozygous DP because he is also homozygous sooty (which doesn't necessarily make them dark).

For example, this mare of mine is homozygous sooty and I'm relatively certain she doesn't have DP.

2G Framed Apple Galaxy pb

What do you think?
Has anyone breed a brown that looks almost black?

best friend · Feb 10, 2017 8:04 PM

I think your colt may be Dp. He is dark and appears black

jahdaz · Feb 10, 2017 8:47 PM

I have some dark brown foals, but I don't think they are nearly as dark as him.. (sorry, they've also got ice)

MarbleToluene

He could have DP. Have either of his parents produces any liver foals?

Wildland Acres · Feb 10, 2017 9:18 PM

Now, be sure not to compare single and double At together, as they look different.
1 DP

DP682323

Suspected 1 DP

Oleander Pine

If you learn anything, please let me know. I can't wait to breed the suspected to see it I can find anything. Gonna try to get bays at first as I can tell DP with them.

Ritsika · Feb 10, 2017 11:40 PM

@jahdaz, those are some gorgeous foals. I really like that ice pattern. I can't wait to see them all grown up. The sire is a Freaky Friday herd helper so I know the colt is at least heterozygous DP. I'm wondering if the A Rhythm of Four mare also passed on a copy of DP.

@Wildland Acres, I didn't realize that homozygous At and heterozygous At had different looks about them. I will keep that in mind for the future. So I did learn something new. :)

KerredansCorral · Feb 11, 2017 4:47 AM

Looking at that tobi draft mare, I would think she has DP. She is very dark, even with the sty. The lighter (reddish) color on her is being created by the pangere gene. But her face and shoulder area and even the area on the spot above the reddish area is pretty dark, so I would say she carries at least 1 DP gene.

kassierae · Feb 11, 2017 5:48 AM

Heterozygous and homozygous At do not have a difference to my knowledge.

KerredansCorral · Feb 11, 2017 7:12 AM

There is a slight difference in Heterozygous At and Homozygous At. A Homozygous At brown horse usually be redder in color than a Heterozygous one.

Homozygous Brown

Heterozygous Brown

kassierae · Feb 11, 2017 7:52 AM

Ah, but then you get into these kinds of homozygous At browns, which I have quite a few of. I think there are more factors at play than we can see, at times. I also have heterozygous At browns that are just as dark as your homozygous examples.

http://hj2.huntandjump.com/horse.php?horseid=406128

http://hj2.huntandjump.com/adv_search.php?runsearch=1&status=any&ageg=&agel=&agee=&erag=&eral=&erae=&heightg=&heightl=&heighte=&boneg=&bonel=&bonee=&f_basic=none&f_adv=none&f_limit=25&stallion=1&mare=1&gelding=1&spayedmare=1&bty=1&lined=lined&foundation=1&name=&name_lm=like&color=&color_lm=like&owner=6224&owner_lm=like&breeder=&breeder_lm=like&sire=&sire_lm=like&dam=&dam_lm=like&barn=&barn_lm=like&pasture=&past_lm=like&tattoo=&tat_lm=like&tat_and=and&club=&bc_lm=like&bc_and=and&e1=&e2=&a1=2&a4=1&a2=2&a3=2&f1=&f2=&p1=&p2=&s1=&s2=&s3=&c1=&c2=&c3=&d1=&d2=&g1=&g2=&ch1=&ch2=&z1=&z2=&sa2=&sa1=&kit1=&kit2=&kit3=&kit4=&kit5=&kit6=&kit10=&kit11=&kit12=&kit7=&kit8=&kit9=&sp1=&sp2=&sp3=&pax31=&pax32=&rb1=&rb2=&o1=&o2=&l1=&l2=&ice1=&icei=&ice2=&ice3=&ice4=&ice5=&ice6=&ice7=&ice8=&ice9=&ice10=&ice11=&ice12=&ice13=&nexn=&nexx=&nexr=&nexg=&nexb=&brindle1=1&brindle2=1&wf1=1&wf2=1&wf3=1&wf4=1&wf5=1&wf6=1

Rhythm Falls · Feb 11, 2017 7:59 AM

Rhythm of Four's are indeed het DP :).

I have this colt out of my FF mare, and he looks lighter than yours. I would say your boy if definitely hom DP :D

RF2 Freaky Good Dip

Ritsika · Feb 11, 2017 11:00 AM

Cool! He is going to be a handsome show horse.

Thanks for all the discussion. I really enjoyed reading up and seeing a lot of other dark brown bays.

Denalidom · Feb 11, 2017 2:16 PM

http://colorgenetics.info/equine/enigmatic-brown-horse

Het At is darker than hom At

kassierae · Feb 11, 2017 2:40 PM

If you want to get technical, there is no actual At gene. ;) It is currently unknown what the cause of darker seal bay/brown is.

Ritsika · Feb 11, 2017 3:53 PM

@kassierae, I wasn't planning on getting too technical. I was simply surprised by his phenotype. You are certainly correct and, if we were to get technical again, I'm pretty sure the mechanisms of flaxen, rabicano, and sooty are still unknown as well. ;)

kassierae · Feb 11, 2017 4:06 PM

I was more responding to Denali about the het/hom thing. Genetics is so complex. I've been reading and learning about them for the better part of 10 years now. I'm amazed at how far we've come, and can't wait to see how far we get! :)

Ritsika · Feb 11, 2017 4:36 PM

Oh! I see that now.

Genetics are complex. Scientists have discovered so much in the past decade, yet we have seem to uncover more questions with each discovery. I can't wait to see what is identified next. :)

kassierae · Feb 11, 2017 4:45 PM

Me neither! It's so fascinating!

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