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New KIT lethality and Kit Mutation Load explained - Horse Genetics Game - Dev Forum
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New KIT lethality and Kit Mutation Load explained
  • What is Kit Mutation Load?
    This number is how broken the foals KIT genes are. If it goes above 100% broken the foal will be lethal. Foals with mutation loads 100 and below survive. This number will normally be a secret number, but through the next breeding season you will be able to see it to help you understand the new system and how close to load limits different kinds of crosses are.

    What controls white factor?
    White factor is a numeric representation of the the sum total of all the little things that influence the amount of white of a horse. Foals inherit some of their white factor level from their parents and some from the genes they have. Mutations can also push white factor up. The more mutations on a foal the higher it's white factor. Beware of breeding risky crosses when splash and frame are also in the mix. They increase the over all white factor and your risk of a lethal foal.

    How can a cross be only sometimes lethal?
    First the game take the whole range of horses that would have survived but had life long health issues, foals that would have survived a few weeks but ultimately died, etc. and simplifies that down to lethal or not. Second is a genetic concept called penetrance. Genetics is not a simple on/off switch like is often taught in middle school. Some genes just put you at a higher risk. In real life some splash white horses are deaf, others are not and the percentage of deaf ones depends largely on which splash allele is present. But regardless the more white on the horse the more likley they are to be deaf. Same with our KIT mutations the riskier the allele and the more white on the horse the more likley something critical was hit this time.


    Remember white markings are broken horses.
    Most color genes on horses are mutations (anything outside of the wild horse bay look) and a mutation is a broken gene. That is really important to remember. Some breaks like bay becoming black are pretty trivial and don't do much. Some breaks are more problematic. Every white sock, star, pinto mark etc is a sign of something that is broken and the more white on a horse the more things that are broken. Pigment is vital for many bodily functions and a total lack of it is often lethal. The lethal gene system models this reality. The more you stack risky genes together the more at risk the health of the foal. This is true in real life and in game**.

    **Does that mean I am anti paint horse? Absolutely not! I love beautifully marked paints and pintos but I also believe that only irresponsible breeders breed two frame carrying horses together in real life.
    .


    I have created a chart to show you how risky different crosses are. Remember adding splash, frame and high white factor parents to the mix greatly increases your risk of a lethal foal. Green crosses will always be safe dark red crosses will almost always be lethal.

    image



    Are you a numbers person? See the full calculation matrix with all the KIT load numbers here.
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1HKUJgwuzbKilAgePgMfMewYd8kU3BKWbe8OcX5QNy_Q/edit?usp=sharing
  • With the calculation spreadsheet are the potential numbers from one parent added to the other to get the foal's potential number?
  • No. The KML is based only on the genetics the foal has.
  • Does Kit Promoter add to a horse's kit mutation load?
    SALVISTAR PERFORMANCE HORSES
    Barn ID - 2358
    Thanked by 1Amgr1992
  • I am also wondering if carrying Lp adds to white load and risk, since you specifically mentioned Splash and Frame but not Appaloosa. I think somewhere randomly in my head I have filed away that Appy sort of works independently of white factor (so a horse with None White Factor can still be a full on leopard Appy if they carry 2 copies of PATN, etc).

    Just wondering since I have a lot of appaloosa and splash mixed into some double Kit lines. I love lots of patterns together....so pretty!
  • Appy does not interact with KML.
    Thanked by 1Cheers
  • You mentioned that Splash and frame and high white factors also add to the load. Is there another chart that includes them? I'm wondering about a combination of Splash 2 and Sabino 1 in particular, and/or W20. :)
  • No splash and frame increase your white factor. They do not increase the load directly.

    There is a link to a full chart with white factor listed in the original post.

    If you look at the image in the original post you can see how risky all those genes are.
    Thanked by 1Cheers
  • I didn't see an answer to my question above. Does KP add to a horses kit mutation load or increase their white factor?
    SALVISTAR PERFORMANCE HORSES
    Barn ID - 2358
  • Wow. Complicated, but interesting. Thank you for this update, Ammit! :)
    understand the significance of signatures
  • @Salvistar I don't have an answer for that one at this time and don't want to give you incorrect information. :)
    Thanked by 2Salvistar Ritsika
  • Thank you, I was wondering why my once ok to breed loud appy stud and some of my mares lost their foals. I will be very careful with my breeding and the white genes.
  • Very helpful.
    Breeder of the tallest drafts
  • Wait... I know what most of these on the chart mean/stand for, but... What's the M one for? I know I'm gonna feel dumb once I find out. Lol
    Love,
    Spry
  • Kit m. :) Used to be called white 4...this one:

    image
    IV Brim PrlYmW 4gA
    Thanked by 1kintara
  • @RoseFlute he is gorgeous! If you offer straws from him in the future, please let me know!
    Watercolor, Chinchilla, Axiom, Nexus, Wrong Warp, Nacre, Ice 5/8, Satin and Pearl
  • By the way, the chart is now in the FAQ/Guide:

    http://hj2.huntandjump.com/faq.php#870
    image
  • Is there a definitive category for Splash and Frame yet? I'm adding W2 to my herd, and it apparently reacts with almost everything.

    Decision making is not my strong point.
    For the next 72 hours I’ll be focusing on _____ (insert breeding goal here).

  • Frame is o Lynn lethal with it's self when homozygous, Splash 1 is save with everything and homozygous, Splash 2 is lethal homozygous and lethal with splash 3 but fine with splash 1, Splash 3 is lethal when homozygous and with splash 2 but fine with splash 1. I think splash M is fine with everything and homozygous but I don't own that so I don't know.
    21170 ~ Breeder of quality Liver Chestnut and Chocolate Palomino riding horses and ponies with unique twists. Specializing in Kit Promoter with fancy white patterns.
    Coming soon ~ Snowflake, Nexus and Ice5
    Thanked by 2Seaswell BlackWyld
  • All correct, NorthernStars.
    De gustibus non disputandum. "There's no arguing about tastes."

    SandyCreek Farm: ID# 441
    also playing H&J1 as SandyCreek Acres: ID# 137592
  • In Ammit's OP, she states: "Remember adding splash, frame and high white factor parents to the mix greatly increases your risk of a lethal foal." So I must be misunderstanding something, because splash and frame aren't discussed here. Obviously Frame/Frame is lethal, but Frame/Splash? Frame/W2?

    Guess I'll see what happens! :)

    Decision making is not my strong point.
    For the next 72 hours I’ll be focusing on _____ (insert breeding goal here).

  • @towdolly, if you look back at that original post, Ammit talks about how every white hair on a horse indicates a “broken” bit of genetic code. More white means more breaks, and at some point there are just too many breaks to be viable. Adding splash and/or Frame to a horse that already has two Kit patterns increases the total amount of white on the horse and will make crosses more risky, as will high white Factor parents.

    Aside from the already known Lethal splash combos (Hom Splash 2, Hom Splash 3, and Splash 2 with Splash 3) and hom Frame, all of the Splashes and Frame are safe to mix with any single Kit pattern or with each other. It is when you mix two Kit patterns (or homozygous for one pattern) with Splash and/or Frame that you’re increasing the Kit Lethality of your possible foals.
  • Ah, ok. I missed that connection - the TWO kit patterns. I've just finished ruthlessly cullling all W20 from my breeding herd, and working on Sabino.

    Decision making is not my strong point.
    For the next 72 hours I’ll be focusing on _____ (insert breeding goal here).

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