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- Abbey Road March 2015
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So, I guess I have a DP carrier?/General confusion about A+ with DP
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Ok so my understanding of wild bay and DP has been completely thrown out of the water this breeding season. I thought A+ was like A or At in that it will only show on black based horses. Meanwhile, I thought DP only shows on red based horses. So by those assumptions, this colt must be DP...
http://hj2.huntandjump.com/horse.php?horseid=201655
He is very dark (and tested Chestnut), so my first thought was DP...and I suppose his sire could be a carrier, but he is also A+At (had no idea his dam was a carrier for At). It could all be a coincidence, but it seems to me that often times dark chestnut horses carry one A+. Here is all of Dark Stranger's foals this season. He is A+A+ so all of these horses have at least one A+ allele.:
http://hj2.huntandjump.com/adv_search.php?status=any&ageg=&agel=&agee=&f_basic=none&f_adv=none&f_limit=25&stallion=1&mare=1&gelding=1&spayedmare=1&name=&name_lm=like&color=&color_lm=like&bty=1&lined=lined&foundation=1&sire=194835&dam=&barn=&owner=&breeder=&e1=1&e2=1&a1=1&a2=1&f1=1&f2=1&p1=1&p2=1&s1=1&s2=1&s3=1&c1=1&c2=1&c3=1&d1=1&d2=1&g1=1&g2=1&ch1=1&ch2=1&z1=1&z2=1&sa1=1&sa2=1&sa3=1&kit1=1&kit2=1&kit3=1&kit4=1&kit5=1&kit6=1&kit7=1&kit8=1&kit9=1&sp1=1&sp2=1&rb1=1&rb2=1&o1=1&o2=1&l1=1&l2=1&v1=1&v2=1&brindle1=1&brindle2=1&patn1=1&patn2=1&patn3=1&patn4=1&patn5=1&patn6=1&wf1=1&wf2=1&wf3=1&wf4=1&wf5=1&wf6=1
Here's another example:
http://hj2.huntandjump.com/horse.php?horseid=160399
Notice this horse's dam is dark chestnut and must carry A+ (sire doesn't have it).
There are plenty of counter examples to this idea though. Maybe I'm just seeing connections that aren't there or I'm just noticing only the subset of horses that happens to carry A+ and DP?
On the subject of confusion, let's look at Dark Stranger himself:
http://hj2.huntandjump.com/horse.php?horseid=194835
He is A+A+ and SstySsty. It was my understanding that wild bay is a more aggressive bay that lightens more of a horse than A alone...but I guess that's not exactly how A+ works. Could someone enlighten me?
Sorry for the rambly post - I just am pretty confused by this whole thing haha.
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Bay (agouti) is a gene that only affects black pigment. So your boy carries agouti but it doesn't affect his color at all (yes, he is a lovely DP). If you bred him to a black (EE) mare his A+ or At would affect the black on the foal, giving you a brown or wild bay, because of the agouti he carries. I hope that makes sense?
If you bred him to a bay (EE AA) you'd get either a bay or a wild bay, depending on which agouti gene he threw. -
I'm not 100% sure, but I think he might be a black chestnut (two copies of DP). What a lovely surprise!
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Like I told you earlier, I am totally baffled by your wild bay that looks black. (Dark Stranger). Maybe someone else can weigh in on that.
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Right, that's what I thought. And DP only shows on red based horses right? Is it possible that DP can exhibit on the reddish parts of bay horses? (Maybe something Ammit kept secret lol?) That might explain why DS is so dark. Although he has quite a few descendants that came out as dark as he is.
The general consensus is that A+ is an aggressive bay that would cause more red color on a bay horse, correct? So we would expect a lighter horse than your average E? A?. So by that standard DS and his foals confuse me. Maybe wild bay doesn't necessarily lighten, it causes a "chocolatey" pigment?
(I really hope DS isn't just broken as I really like his unique coloring! Haha) -
I don't know, but I thought the color was still being fixed over here at HJ2. I still get "Yellow" chestnuts when I create. So for right now, I wouldn't judge a horse by it's color over here.
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Yeah I just looked through some A+A+ horses on HAJ and didn't see anything like my crop there, so I suspect it is just a wonky bug =/ Hopefully his foals are actually DP carriers but we'll have to wait and see.