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In this Discussion
- Abbey Road February 2015
- Baya February 2015
- Kaquel February 2015
- Kat8805 February 2015
- KerredansCorral February 2015
- OndowaStables February 2015
- PaintsStables February 2015
- Salvistar February 2015
- SandycreekFarm February 2015
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Alright let's talk in-game genetics...
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I couldn't find a thread like this in the old forum (but since I don't have a log in, I can't search, so it could definitely be there), but I thought it would be useful for me and anyone else starting out. I want to see if I've got all the genes sorted out:
Coat Color Gene Guide
Contributors include Salvistar, KerredansCorral, Abbey Road, and SandyCreek Farm
Base Coat Genes:
Extension: Possible combinations are EE, Ee, and ee. A horse that has one dominant (E) allele will be black based, while a horse that has two recessive alleles will be red based.
Agouti: Possible combinations are AA, Aa, and aa and each allele could be standard A (regular bay), A+ (wild bay) or At (brown-needs example). A horse that has one dominant (A) allele carries agouti. Agouti will only exhibit on black based horses, but red based horses can be carriers. A+ is dominant to all other forms, while A is dominant to At. AtAt will produce a lighter colored horse than Ata.
Cream/Pearl: Possible combinations are CC, CcrC, CcrCcr, CprlC, CprlCprl, and CcrCprl.
-Cream is incomplete dominant which means that a horse that carries one copy of the cream allele will be a single dilute (black->smokey black, chestnut->palomino, bay->buckskin (examples needed)) while a horse that has two copies will be a double dilute (black->smokey cream, chestnut->cremello, bay->perlino (examples needed)).
-(input needed on this one) Pearl exhibits only when a horse has two copies of the allele. Note that if a horse is CcrCprl, it will exhibit like a CcrCcr horse, but it still carries Cprl.
Dun: Possible combinations are DD, Dd, and dd. A horse that has one dominant (D) allele will be dun. Dun exhibits as lighter coloring with darker points on the face and legs. Some horses have a dorsal stripe and may have striping on the legs. Common combinations include chesnut->red dun, bay->bay dun, and black->grullo (examples needed).
Gray: Possible combinations are GG, Gg, and gg. A horse that has one dominant (G) allele will be gray. Gray horses are born as whatever base color they would have been without the presence of gray, but lighten over time. Sometimes a gray foal that has not grayed out can be identified by small sections of gray around the eyes and muzzle. (example needed)
Flaxen: Possible combinations are FF, Ff, and ff. Red based horses that are homozygous recessive (ff) will have flaxen manes and tails.
Sooty: Possible combinations are SstySsty, SstyS, and SS. Sooty controls how dark a horse is. It is incomplete dominant which means a horse with only one Ssty allele horse will be lighter than a SstySsty horse. There is also a limited edition version of sooty (S+) which creates a dappled effect.
Pangere: Possible combinations are PP, Pp, and pp. A horse that has one dominant (P) allele and is either red based or bay based will exhibit pangere. Pangere creates an area of light coloring around the muzzle, front legs, and loins on a horse.
Silver: Possible combinations are ZZ, Zz, and zz. A horse with one dominante (Z) allele that is black based will exhibit silver. Silver turns the black points on a horse into a silver color. (example needed)
Champagne: Possible combinations include ChCh, Chch, and chch. A horse with one dominant (Ch) allele will exhibit champagne. Champagne gives the horse a "pinkish" hue (better way to describe this appreciated). Champagne horses have pink, often speckled muzzles. With the champagne gene, black->classic champagne, bay->amber champagne, and chestnut->gold champagne (example needed).
Satin: Section needed
Dense Phelomelanin (DP): This gene cannot currently be tested for. DP only exhibits on red based horses, and can be hard to detect without a Ssty allele present as well. (I think it would be cool if we just collected a bunch of examples of this and I posted them here. I'l start with one of mine that I think has DP: example
Pattern Genes:
Kit: The Kit gene controls roan (Kitr), tobiano (Kitto), white (Kitw, Kitw2, Kitw3, Kitw4) and sabino (Kitsb1, Kitsb2, Kitsb3). Each horse only has two kit alleles, so any given horse can only have a maximum of two of these patterns. Note that a horse can only pass on one of its kit alleles, so if you have a roan tobiano horse, he can only pass on either roan or tobiano, but not both.
Roan: The roan allele exhibits as an even mixture of white and colored hairs over most of the body, excluding the head and legs.
Tobiano: The tobiano allele exhibits as white patches that cross over the top of a horse. Tobiano horses will occasionally have white tails.
White: The white alleles creates irregular, white patches on a horse. There are four white alleles: (examples). Any horse that inherits two of any white allele will be stillborn! Breeding two white horses won't increase the chance of having a live, white foal; it will only yield a 25% chance of a dead foal. Note that white 1 or 2 combined with sabino 1 or 2 will yield a dead foal as well. (visual differences between W1, W2, W3, and W4?, examples of white horses needed)
Sabino: The sabino alleles typically create white markings on a horse's face, legs and on the underside of his body. Sabino 1 has a smudgy look, while sabino 2 has much more jagged edges. Sabino 3 is more patchy and tends to cover more of a horse's body. Note that white 1 or 2 combined with sabino 1 or 2 will yield a dead foal.
Splash: Splash generally exhibits on the lower parts of a horse's body (think paint splashed up on the horse). There are three splash alleles: Sps, Sps2, Sps3.
Varnish:
Appaloosa:
Rabicano:
Frame; (OwlO exhibits frame), fatal if homozygous
Ice: I know nothing about this one. Aren't there a ton of variations on this too? Is this reverse dapples in RL?
White Factor:
Pattern Expression:
Kit Promoter:
Gulastra Plume:
Please correct me where I'm wrong or let me know what I should add to make this more complete. I'll edit it so we have something like an approximate record of what does what. -
I read somewhere that At is "brown" or probably more accurately a darker form of bay while A+ is a lighter form of bay. Regular A is in between.
Pangere causes a lighter undercarriage (belly) and muzzle. I can't remember for sure but I think it only shows up on red based horses.
Silver only affects the color of black based horses. A chestnut or palomino carrying silver will still look the same as a non silver carrying chestnut or palomino.
Might have to brush up on the others to fill in your other blanks. I'm also curious about ice. I tried googling an "ice gene" awhile back and found nothing.SALVISTAR PERFORMANCE HORSES
Barn ID - 2358 -
No, Pangere can show up on both red and black based horses. It will not show up on a E?aa based horse, but bays, and browns can have it and show it.
This horse does not have pangere:
http://hj2.huntandjump.com/horse.php?horseid=168163
This horse does: See the areas around the loins, muzzle and behind the front legs that are "yellowish", that is the pangere showing.
http://hj2.huntandjump.com/horse.php?horseid=124881
CC is Cream CC is without- Ccr is either buckskin (E?) or Palomino (ee), and CcrCcr is homozygous and are either Smokey Creams (E?), Cremellos (ee), or Perlinos (E?A?). Pearl carriers will show Cprl, and homozygous Pearl is CprlCprl.
SS or StyS or StySty is the "sooty" gene, or, how dark your horse is. SS is non sooty, StyS or SSty is hetero for Sooty, and StySty is homozygous for sooty.
These horses have no Sooty:
Red Based:
http://hj2.huntandjump.com/horse.php?horseid=184739
Black Based:
http://hj2.huntandjump.com/horse.php?horseid=192172
This horse is a Bay Dun with one Sty gene:
http://hj2.huntandjump.com/horse.php?horseid=156575
And this horse is a Bay Dun with Homozygous Sty gene. See the difference between the two:
http://hj2.huntandjump.com/horse.php?horseid=156570
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Ok, for White Factor and PATN.
White Factor is harder to explain. In the game it shows up as "white socks" and "facial blazes", and the expression of the white determines how high the socks are or how big the blaze is, the more expression, the more white. It also works on patterned horses like Tobianos, splash and Rabicano, on how much white they can show.
If you look back up at the Sooty information at the black based non sooty horse I posted a link too, he also has Tobiano, and a White Factor of "Medium". He shows an "average" pattern of white.
This next horse is also Tobiano and has a "Miminal" White Pattern, and as you can see has less white on her body:
http://hj2.huntandjump.com/horse.php?horseid=194672
This Tobiano Splash horse has and "Extensive" White pattern, and see how much white she has:
http://hj2.huntandjump.com/horse.php?horseid=183915
PATN only shows up on Appaloosas, and depending on how large or small it is in extension, will vary the size of the blanket the horse has. A PATN none will have no blanket (one of my favorite kinds actually)
http://hj2.huntandjump.com/horse.php?horseid=90180
While a "Medium" PATN shows a decent blanket:
http://hj2.huntandjump.com/horse.php?horseid=155541
A "Extensive" PATN will give you a "White" horse, on a homozygous Lp horse:
http://hj2.huntandjump.com/horse.php?horseid=51217
A "Extensive" PATN with only a Hetero Lp gene will give you a Leopard Appaloosa:
http://hj2.huntandjump.com/horse.php?horseid=156585
So with Appaloosa, LL is none appaloosa, Hetero Llpl shows spots on the blanket depending on the PATN's expression, and a Homozygous LlpLlp will have no spots on the blanket or body, depending again on the expression of the PATN. -
Great idea! Thank you! I had a handle on most of it, but it's always nice to see examples, and have a reference handy.
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Alright later tonight I am going to rewrite the first post with some edits. Is it okay with you guys if I use some of your examples?
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No problem. I used all my own horses, except for the post below, where I just did a search link.
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Oh, I ment to mention with the Sooty, there is also a sooty + gene, which is a LE (Limited Edition) gene in the game (something you have to pay real money for to put on a foundation.)
Below is a search link to such horses. If you look you can see the difference from horses that are S+S, S+Sty, or S+S+. S+S+ are usually the darkest, since Sooty+ is a darker sooty than the regular one, and you can see the dappling in the horses coat with it.
http://hj2.huntandjump.com/adv_search.php?status=any&ageg=&agel=&agee=&erag=&eral=&erae=&f_basic=none&f_adv=none&tattoo=Sooty%2B&f_limit=25&stallion=1&mare=1&name=&name_lm=like&color=&color_lm=like&bty=1&lined=lined&foundation=1&sire=&dam=&barn=&owner=&breeder=&e1=1&e2=1&a1=1&a2=1&f1=1&f2=1&p1=1&p2=1&s1=1&s2=1&s3=1&c1=1&c2=1&c3=1&d1=1&d2=1&g1=1&g2=1&ch1=1&ch2=1&z1=1&z2=1&sa1=1&sa2=1&kit1=1&kit2=1&kit3=1&kit4=1&kit5=1&kit6=1&kit7=1&kit8=1&kit9=1&sp1=1&sp2=1&rb1=1&rb2=1&o1=1&o2=1&l1=1&l2=1&v1=1&v2=1&brindle1=1&brindle2=1&patn1=1&patn2=1&patn3=1&patn4=1&patn5=1&patn6=1&wf1=1&wf2=1&wf3=1&wf4=1&wf5=1&wf6=1 -
A few additions:
DP (dense phelomelanin) is the newest addition to the game. It is the gene that produces "liver chestnuts" and "chocolate palominos" and if homozygous, "black chestnuts." Here are examples of each of those, respectively.
http://hj2.huntandjump.com/horse.php?horseid=192466
http://hj2.huntandjump.com/horse.php?horseid=178448
http://hj2.huntandjump.com/horse.php?horseid=169198
DP is not testable, only visible on aa horses, and sometimes even on aa horses if not Sty, still hard to detect. And, there is a lot of variation between shades with DP.
Kit genes that are lethal in combination:
White in combination with any other white.
White 1/2 with Sabino 1/2.
Examples of Kit genes:
Tobiano - Tobiano usually crosses the topline of the horse, making large patches of color on what seems to be a white background. Minimal expressions sometimes are just high socks or a white tail, however.
http://hj2.huntandjump.com/horse.php?horseid=90145
http://hj2.huntandjump.com/horse.php?horseid=169150
Roan - roan is an even mixture of white and colored hairs over most of the body, with the legs and face generally appearing darker than the rest of the horse. Roans do not grey out unless they are also grey.
http://hj2.huntandjump.com/horse.php?horseid=101393
Sabino 1 - more of a "smudgy" look than Sb2, and a little more subtle. Sabino tends to be on faces, legs and bellies, although it can reach other parts.
http://hj2.huntandjump.com/horse.php?horseid=172909
Sabino 2 - similar to Sb1, but with very sharply defined edges
http://hj2.huntandjump.com/horse.php?horseid=152298
Sabino 3 - Sb3 is much more patchy. I think it looks a little different if homozygous but I don't have an example just now.
http://hj2.huntandjump.com/horse.php?horseid=51603
Sabinos are safe in combination with one another but Sb1 and Sb2 do weird things together. With a large white expression they often whitewash the entire horse.
http://hj2.huntandjump.com/horse.php?horseid=45424
(I'll do Whites in a later post unless someone else wants to)
Kit genes are on the same allelle, so if you have a roan tobiano horse, he can only pass on EITHER roan or tobiano, not both.
Hope that helps!
You're also missing KP (Kit Promoter) and GP (Gulastra Plume). More info later, I'm pressed for time, but KP causes a cascade failure in pigment that makes "ghostly" or "cloudy" markings. It has to be homozygous to be visible and is only visible on horses with two Kit genes. GP also has to be homozygous to be visible and I think only on Agouti horses. It produces an effect as if the tail was dipped in white paint. Neither of these genes show up on our genetic testing, making them challenging to breed for.
KP:
http://hj2.huntandjump.com/horse.php?horseid=160663
(this is on a horse with ice and sabino, too - you can make out the different markings, but the "cloudy" looking part is the KP)
GP:
http://hj2.huntandjump.com/horse.php?horseid=107100 -
Oh, also, silver (zz) is only visible on Extension horses, i.e. _E. Red horses can carry it but it's invisible.
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The complete current state of the Agouti alleles:
A+: Wild bay, is dominant over all other agouti alleles, even when heterozygous, produces a lighter version of bay on horses with at least one dominant extension allele; can be carried by red-based ee horses.
A: Bay, is recessive to A+ but dominant over the other agouti alleles; will produce bay based horses when combined with dominant extension, E; can be carried by red-based ee horses.
At: Brown, is recessive to A+ and A. On horses with at least one dominant extension, Ata will produce a dark brown horse, AtAt will produce a lighter brown horse, and AtA will produce a bay horse. At has a strong interaction with Sooty, which its effect.
Cream and Pearl: CcrCprl horses look like CcrCcr, and are called pseudo-double dilutes.
There are currently 5 Ice alleles. Ice is a fantasy gene and gives several variations of icy patches on horses.
Ice 1: http://hj2.huntandjump.com/horse.php?horseid=42435
Ice 2: http://hj2.huntandjump.com/horse.php?horseid=66026
Ice 2 is an extremely rare pattern, held by only a few people and breeding is supposed to be strictly controlled by those so that it remains very rare.
Mixed Ice 1 and Ice 2: http://hj2.huntandjump.com/horse.php?horseid=118808
Ice 3 and Ice 4 are, I believe privately held by single owners. I'm not sure these two genes are present in this game at all.
Ice 5 was introduced during the holiday sales last year and could be purchased for real-life money.
http://hj2.huntandjump.com/horse.php?horseid=138554
De gustibus non disputandum. "There's no arguing about tastes."
SandyCreek Farm: ID# 441
also playing H&J1 as SandyCreek Acres: ID# 137592 -
http://hj2.huntandjump.com/horse.php?horseid=133257
So I have this 7 year old made, it says she has tobiano but she barely shows it. Why?Life is Special live it to your fullest -
My guess is because she has a white factor of none.
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Sidenote: holy crap, I am in love with S+...it is so pretty.
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Yes, Baya, because of the low white factor. See post about kit genes above.
Kaquel: Me too, it's my absolute favorite. It makes every color more awesome. -
It's literally so gorgeous. I want it on everything haha. You can't buy it anymore, correct? You'd have to breed to an existing horse?
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It really does marvelous things on horses that have dilution genes--cream, dun, silver, champagne.
And yes, you'd have to breed to a horse that already is carrying it.De gustibus non disputandum. "There's no arguing about tastes."
SandyCreek Farm: ID# 441
also playing H&J1 as SandyCreek Acres: ID# 137592 -
Ok I got a bit sidetracked doing some DP breeding...haha but I will work on the pattern section tomorrow. I also skipped satin since I don't know much about it at all.
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S+ is also one of my favorites.
I bought a couple, and bred the rest.
My favorite color S+, Alpine Crossroads, but he was gelded: http://hj2.huntandjump.com/horse.php?horseid=193558
Second favorite, Rising Vette, and I have an S+ from him also: http://hj2.huntandjump.com/horse.php?horseid=151452
http://hj2.huntandjump.com/horse.php?horseid=167373
http://hj2.huntandjump.com/horse.php?horseid=194165
http://hj2.huntandjump.com/horse.php?horseid=170975
http://hj2.huntandjump.com/horse.php?horseid=38322
http://hj2.huntandjump.com/horse.php?horseid=184450
http://hj2.huntandjump.com/horse.php?horseid=183300
Got another nice S+ this morning. He was also gelded. Hopefully, he will be as good of a shower as his brother and sister. He is inconsistent, so I will have to see: http://hj2.huntandjump.com/tackmanager.php?horse=195292
Here is a favorite Brown of mine. Mystery Doodles. He is aAt, SstyS, and Pp. He came out a really cool Brown. He also has passed those genes of to both progeny I have bred from him. They were spayed and gelded, but both are showing at a profit right now: http://hj2.huntandjump.com/horse.php?horseid=149122 -
Kit: possible Kit genes include Roan, tobiano, white and sabino. There are 4 variations of white and 3 variations of sabino. White is lethal when homozygous. Any combo of white 1 or white 2 with sabino 1 or sabino 2 is also lethal.
Splash there is only splash or non splash alleles. There are not multiple variations of splash. They are NOT lethal when homozygous.
Varnish only exhibits on appaloosas.
Frame only exhibits on horses with kit gene patterns (except roan) and splash.
Ice I could only find 3 variations when I searched Ice 1 Ice 2 and Ice 5SALVISTAR PERFORMANCE HORSES
Barn ID - 2358 -
Actually, there is now a Splash 3 in the game, but it is fairly new. There is a Splash 2, but I don't know if it is over here on HJ2, though it is over at HJ1.
I think that if Splash 2 and Splash 3 are together on a horse it is lethal. -
Splash 3 is found on the same MITF gene as Splash 1 and is noted as Sps3.
Splash 2 is on a separate gene; its notation is PAX3C70YPAX3, where PAX3C70Y is the splash 2 mutation, and PAX3+ is no splash 2 mutation. Both are found at H&J1, and noted in the genetic description.
They were introduced to celebrate the 3 millionth horse on H&J1, Lupin the Third, who carries Splash 3. Splash 2 horses were created at the same time.
And KerredansCorral is correct, Splash 2 and Splash 3 together are lethal.De gustibus non disputandum. "There's no arguing about tastes."
SandyCreek Farm: ID# 441
also playing H&J1 as SandyCreek Acres: ID# 137592 -
I didn't know about splash 3! Probably because I'm not over on HJ1... I'll have to see if I can find a horse with it now...SALVISTAR PERFORMANCE HORSES
Barn ID - 2358 -
On HJ2 the Splash 3 foundation horse is The Brindled Cat. Here is Ammit's post about it: http://hj2.huntandjump.com/forum.php#/discussion/2268/our-holiday-gift-for-you-straws-from-the-brindled-catI was jllewis on the old forum.
Stable ID 88 -
Ok tonight I think I'll finish doing a cursory outline of all the patterns. This weekend I'm going to go back and read all the posts again and add more detail. Do you guys know if splash still creates blue eyes (it did back in the day, but not sure if that's changed). Are there any other genes that cause different colored eyes? I'll add that in later.
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I'm not sure about splash. Homozygous cream gives blue eyes, I believe. Champagne gives amber eyes, whether its homozygous or heterozygous.De gustibus non disputandum. "There's no arguing about tastes."
SandyCreek Farm: ID# 441
also playing H&J1 as SandyCreek Acres: ID# 137592 -
Splash can cause blue eyes, but doesn't all the time.
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In game, I used to get splash horses with blue eyes all the time, but since the colors changed I haven't seen a single one. This makes me sad. One of my favorite things in the world is minimal splash with blue eyes.
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Yes I really like that too! I remember them fondly from when I used to play. I hope it comes back (if it really changed).