HGG Community Forums

Maria, on the genetics part I’d highly recommend that you find out what genetics text book is used in the lowest level genetics class at your local university. You should be able to find a used copy cheap at a university bookshop or on a textbooks for sale site. While this will likely have no or very little equine specific genetics in it, it should give you a more solid understanding of the science and theory behind all of this. In particular, it may help you understand real life genetics testing.

I know Frame in the game is based on a real life gene. Homozygous Frame Horses in real life are born pure white (I think) and die soon after birth if not euthanized due to having an incomplete digestive tract. They can eat, but they can’t eliminate waste and I’m told it’s quite a horrible death....also as Ammit talks about in the Kit Lethality post, more white on a horse generally means more broken things...horses with a lot of white are often deaf or have other issues.

Other genetic issues are likely to run in certain breeds or certain “families” just like they do in dogs and humans in real life. You should be able to find the main registry organizations for the two breeds you mention online. In addition to outlining the registration process, they should also talk about known inheritable health issues within the breed and what, if any, genetic testing is appropriate to help ensure healthy offspring. Many breed registries exist to try to keep horses associated with their breed to a specific standard. Others are really just pedigree certifications. There may be multiple registries a horse might be eligible for—for instance a Gypsy Vanner might be eligible for certain color based registries due to their color and marking patterns as well as for a GV specific registry.

Hope this gives you a few ideas for further research!

I have almost no real life exposure to Appaloosas so can’t comment reliably on that. Someone else may be able to, but my very sketchy understanding is that appy is different from the other patterns and as a result not really subject to the same rules. For instance, I don’t think that leopard Appaloosas are more risky to breed than blanket, and therefore less white, Appaloosas. I may be completely wrong though!

As far as general genetics knowledge, like you I had a few weeks of it in AP Bio. Then I took a full semester of it at undergrad level and then the next step up for a full semester in vet school. I highly recommend that you get a university level text as it will tell you so much more than your few weeks in high school did. Alternatively, if you live close to a university, you might see if you can audit a genetics class for not too much money. Or even sign up for it for real!

Cheers, you are correct about leopards being just as safe as blanketed spotty-butts to breed. There are some risks to consider when breeding LpLp stock (Congenital Stationary Night Blindness or CSNB, aka moon blindness, for one, is more likely when the horse is homozygous LpLp). As far as I know, none of the appy gene issues are lethal.

Maria, You can cross LpLp X LpLp and your foal should be live and healthy. With that cross you are MOSTLY guaranteed a spotless snowcap... unless, of course, the horse has no PATN1 : P My friend has a Sugarbush Draft LpLp colt who has one white dot on his butt cheek and is otherwise solid black. He is adorable, and ridiculous, and his babies are going to be brilliantly loud. I know some breeders who like to cross LpLp with Lplp so they know the baby will definitely show Appy characteristics, and at the least *probably* have spots as an Lplp. So, if their stud is an Lplp with a blanket, they will try to buy LpLp for their breeding mares, to minimize the number of solid foals.

I think the best way to learn how you might like your breeding operation to be run is to get tours of breeding farms, and when possible, job shadow actual breeders. If you can't find an internship, try to spend a day or get a job at a breeding facility. Learn what you like, and what you don't like. Bigger does NOT always correlate with better! I had Many Opinions on how the 6666 Ranch could improve their AI program after just one afternoon at their facility. I cannot imagine what actual breeding professionals think after touring that place, which is SUPPOSED to be one of the bigger and better operations! No operation is perfect, but some are just fine, even if not the way you would do things, and others are excellent lessons in What Not To Do. Anybody can let a stallion get loose and breed a mare. It doesn't mean they should call themselves a breeding operation!

Learn how they make money, and if it's PROFITABLE money, or if they're working a side job(s) to pay for their ponies. Horse breeding is an industry that's best learned hands-on. Read all the books you can, but then go Do Things in person! Shires are BIG critters, and they will have BIG feed bills. How will you cover the added expense of feeding a draft vs. feeding ponies? Go to a breed or specific talent show/event (such as barrel racing) and ask around "Did you breed the horse you are showing today?" to see who is willing to share a bit of their knowledge with you. Take notes! Horse people like talking. A lot. If you couldn't tell : )

Each breed registry should have a mission statement that explains exactly what the point is of registering. Whether you're creating working mutts or breeding stock will determine just how important a breed registry is to your particular program. The barrels and stopwatch don't care what your horse has running through her veins, but her future buyer who wanted to breed her might care very much!

Registration papers are one more level of security for a horse, but they're only as good as the horse they apply to. You can have a Medallion-earning World Champion registered Appaloosa, and he might still be a crooked pile of unmatched parts that rides like a hyena and has the temperament of a squirrel. The more I learn about horse breeding, the more I wonder if I'll ever know enough to feel comfortable breeding my own stock. The key is to just keep learning!

I breed Gypsies in real life, and they are a fun breed as far as genetics go as they come in all the colours LOL!!! I don't have any Lp gypsies at this stage but there are a few around

If I were you, I'd look into the breeds you are interested and see what their specific registries require to be considered for their papers. For instance, for a Thoroughbred to be allowed to be registered to the Jockey Club they have to not only have two purebred parents and have been conceived via live cover. They do not allow artificial insemination. They are also restrictive to the colors of the horses.. they'll register any purebred Thoroughbred, but if say it is a cream colored horse they will use their base color instead of their actual color.

Also if you're interested in breeding for genetics I would make sure to get an idea as to what your goals would be for this since as with most domestic breeds they tend to have their individual health issues the more you know about those the better prepared you are for them when they arise. :)

I bred registered paint horses for a while. I had a Tobiano stud and I bred him to solid quarter and paint mares. His sire was an black and white overo and his dam was a homozygous Tobiano mare.
He produced medicine hat paints and Tobiano. His offspring were all colored except 2 and when we did the dna status on them they to were tobiano. APHA has now found that some homozygous stallions for the Tobiano tobiano gene can produce slipped tobianos. My two had a two toned tail and stripped hooves that are common for the tobiano gene but they didnt have white markings on their body coat.

If you are serious I would contact some breeding farms around you and see if they will take a tour with you. Maybe even find a farm that specializes in the breeds you are interested in and see if you can volunteer your time their.

I know I'm a bit late getting here, but there is a facebook group called "Equine Color Genetics" that is a very good source for learning about genetics. I knew very little about genetics, joined that group to fill in gaps in my horsemanship, and wound up here. People submit horses, test results, and breaking research. Most of the genetics in the game are modeled on actual or theoretical genes (for example, scientists haven't identified the genes that control pangare or flaxen, but they probably have some sort of genetic component). And seconding all the other suggestions of finding used textbooks or course to take. Some colleges will offer online courses for free - you usually can't use them to get actual college credit, but they provide good introductions and can help you get a leg up.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/EverythingPonies/