HGG Community Forums

Thanks SandyCreek Farm, I am breeding for color and pattern. These colts are mostly 2nd gen. So I am keeping one colt that is close to the sire's PT, and papered the same if I really like the color and pattern, and I don't get one that papers higher. I have been getting some that have nice color or pattern that paper higher, but PT lower. I have been doing the same with those. I noticed with some of my lower PT colts, that they do produce colts that win in showing, waiting to see if those colts produce winners is a good idea. Thanks again for the advice. :)

Abbey Road is right. PT only has a bearing on how quickly a horse will increase its show score with training. PT has NO bearing on breeding ability at all, except that as mares and stallions increase in breeding ability with careful breeding, generally the PT scores of their foals will gradually increase. However, there is a very wide range of possible PT scores, so a foals PT score still says nothing about its breeding score.

As an example from foundation horses--early in my time playing H&J1, I had a mare whose PT score was 2.3. She was such a good breeder (I would estimate that her breeding score was 100%) that I often crossed her with exceptional producers. She ended up papering Red. She did better as a brood mare than many of my other foundation mares with more normal 9.? PT scores.

PT scores don't directly predict whether a horse will show a profit or not. In fact, many horses may go through spells when they don't, and other times when they do. A lot depends on luck--what the show scores of the other horses in the class are, and their consistency as well. This is especially true with horses at the lower showing levels, where there are very few in each class.

What higher PT scores do mean is that the horse will train up higher, so that it is showing at levels that have higher payouts and higher points awarded because there are so many in each class. That used to mean a LOT, but since Ammit changed the showing system, entry fees and payouts are much reduced, but the points gained count towards the weekly showing bonus and so become much more important.

Your three horses with very low PT scores are not worth showing, really. They stop gaining training points very early and remain in the very low level classes. However they can be good breeders, depending on their breeding scores.

What makes a horse a very good profit maker is when it finally levels off in a good place (placing regularly in the top half of its class). Then it can go on making a profit for game years until the tiny fractions of improvement with training add up to enough to kick them into a higher level. However, there is absolutely NO way to predict which horses will do this, and so waiting to see is the only way to go.

Just as in real life, the breeding score is hidden, like underwater reefs that don't break the ocean surface. Breeding a horse a few times doesn't really reveal the score, breeding a horse many, many times will create ripples, then rough water, then maybe a peek at the top of the rocks at low tide. :D In real life, I think about Secretariat, who didn't sire any colts as good as he was, but did, over time reveal himself to be a great sire of brood mares.

The closest we can come is by using the tests Ammit has put into the game, and there, the best guesses come for the colts. They get the benefit of Performance Testing, Gelding Advice, Stallion Papering at birth, and finally, Comparison Testing. For fillies, there is only PT and Mare Advice (or Strict Mare Advice for Level 5). Then it takes three living foals before they can be taken for Mare Papering. Ammit has said the the ratio for mares better than their dams is about the same as for stallions better than their sires, but we have to do the weeding there by hand, as it were, without the advantage of any rototillers (to mix my metaphors dreadfully). It took her a long time to agree to the Mare Advice. After all, knowing exactly good all the horses are at breeding would take a lot of the suspense and fun out of the game.

Thanks for all the answers, and advice. It does help me decided who to geld or spay and who to try in the breeding barn. :)