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wendolyne · May 10, 2018 2:20 AM

I am not really great at the different color genes and I could use some help with this one that I added the blue and red axiom genes. What colors does he carry? Also what color genes would I be able to add to him?I haven't decided yet so I haven't used him for breeding. Thanks.

FallenShadows714 · May 10, 2018 2:39 AM

Link to the stallion?

wendolyne · May 10, 2018 2:54 AM

Sorry.lol. Head is on the moon.

RS Technicolor Dream Coat

RipshinCreekFarm · May 10, 2018 3:56 AM

Gold Champagne Roan Dun Splash Tobiano Frame Appaloosa Rabicano. Carries one copy of silver and bay, which does not affect the chestnut base.

ObsidianKitsune · May 10, 2018 4:07 AM

ee = Red based
Aa = Het classic bay -> dominant over a
CC = No diluting genes
dD = Het dun, dominant over d
gg = No grey
ff = flaxen (hom recessive)
SS = No darkening genes
Pp = het pangere -> dominant over p
Zz = Het silver. Only shows with a copy of E
chCh = Het champagne. Dominant over ch and all other "base" colours. The type of champagne is affected by ee Aa, resulting in Gold (as Ripshin says)
Kit^r/kit^to = het roan, het tobiano. Both are expressed.
SpSps = het splash.
LL^lp = het appy
ECA3P+ = hom for this (I'll try to bring out a thread that explains the expressions of appy better than I could ever do)
rbRb = het rabicano
OlwO = het frame. Hom lethal
NrNb = Axiom colours, as I'm sure you know.

Het = not the same.
Hom = the same.
I like to think of it as sexuality. If someone is homosexual, they like the same gender as them, and if they are heterosexual, they like the opposite gender.

ObsidianKitsune · May 10, 2018 4:11 AM

I thought I bookmarked the specific thread but nope...this one explains it a bit: http://hj2.huntandjump.com/forum/discussion/35295/frosted-horse#Item_5

Cheers · May 10, 2018 5:09 AM

So Wendolyne, I promised I would do a bit of a discussion of the genes for you. This might be helpful for anyone who is struggling a little with figuring out the genetics in the game.

So let’s start at the beginning!

E/e
E is completely dominant to e.
E means the horse can have black and red coloring, and is often referred to as “black based” in game.
e means the horse can have only red coloring and are “red based” in game.

Examples of E horses:
Black

RT HET KP2 2G
Brown

RT Major Milestone 2
Bay

I Grew Up
Silver buckskin pearl

1010052

Examples of e horses:
Chestnut

What Even
Red Dun

SH 1010432
Chocolate Palomino

ES R II Meteor Shower wr
“Black” Liver

Event of the Season

Cheers · May 10, 2018 5:11 AM

So as you can see, just because a horse has E doesn’t mean it can’t be quite quite pale, and just because it’s ee it doesn’t mean it can’t be virtually black.

Cheers · May 10, 2018 5:58 AM

So the next gene down the line is Agouti. Agouti is also known as bay or “bay based”. Agouti ONLY turns “on” if the horse has E. An ee horse carries dominant Agouti alleles “silently”.

Agouti has 3 dominant alleles, each with a varying degree of dominance. It also has one recessive allele.

A+ is “wild bay” but is just called “bay” in the color name. A+ is the most dominant of the Agouti alleles and will override all of the other A versions. Wild bays have very minimal black socks on their legs and generally minimal black points overall.
Wild bays:

SH 1012631

2 Nono Fudge

A is “bay”. It’s what most of us think of when we think “bay”—a reddish or brownish horse with tall black stockings, black mane and tail, black muzzle. This is “overwritten” by wild bay but is dominant to the third Agouti allele.
Bay

RL Griquet

Rhythm N Blues 7G B F

At is “brown”. Sort of. So, At is weird. At is “incompletely dominant” which means the coat color will look different if there is one or 2 copies of At. Two copies of At is “stronger” and looks more like a dark plain bay, while only one gives you a mostly black horse with a reddish or brownish belly. In addition, a horse that is Hom for At and has no dominant sooty will be called “bay” by the game and will look very much like a bright or light bay.
AtAt with no sooty

FR Lori
AtAt with sooty

Getting it Done

Ata

PM Frozen Redemption

Ms Dark Zeph sh

Cheers · May 10, 2018 6:01 AM

I will come back and do the next couple of genes after dinner. I will try to keep on doing a few genes each day until I’ve covered all the alleles in the game.

Cheers · May 12, 2018 1:48 AM

Ok, sorry, the dog was super sore after her follow up X-rays from her knee surgery and I had a little 24 hour freak out there. She’s ok and I’m back!

CeffylDwr · May 12, 2018 2:01 AM

@Cheers glad to hear she's ok!

AshaWindsong · May 12, 2018 2:04 AM

Glad your dog is ok

Cheers · May 12, 2018 2:14 AM

Next gene is Cream/Pearl. So these are “modifier” genes. Cream and Pearl act on the base coat color to lighten it. Cream and Pearl are also both incompletely dominant, so having two copies of a gene, or having one copy of cream and one of pearl, is stronger than just having a single modifying allele.

So our alleles are
C (no change to coat color)
Ccr cream
Cprl pearl

Ccr is stronger than Cprl. Cprl when alone (Cprl C or C Cprl) is silent, while Ccr alone lightens the coat somewhat.

So: C Ccr
Smokey Black (minimal visual effect to coat)

SH 1010065
Buckskin

Fleur Buckle
Palomino

AS2 Little Full On

Homozygous Cream:
Smokey Creme (black Hom cream)

1011315
Perlino (bay/brown base)

G2 China Girl
Cremello (red base)

KF Milestone Harvest

Pearl
So C Cprl makes no clear difference:

9g Niquels Sparrow

Quarouble

November U

Hom Pearl (Cprl Cprl) lightens the coat and gives it a pearlescent sheen. I think in real life this effect has something to do with hollow hair shafts?
Black Pearl

OUAT3 Coco Pearl U
Bay Pearl

1011753
Chestnut Pearl

1011749

If you get both pearl and cream together, you get a PseudoPearl effect. The coat is lightened more significantly than with just Hom Pearl, but you get that pearly shine effect as well.
Smokey Black Pearl

Star jynx X Lexus
Buckskin Pearl

2Kp Chance The Night
Palomino Pearl

SH OUAT3 Coco China

Cheers · May 12, 2018 2:56 AM

So Cream/Pearl was a little complicated, but the next gene is super simple.
D/d
Dun is a simple Dominant/recessive relationship. Dun causes “primitive markings” on a lightened base body color, but with the normal color mane and tail. The primitive markings include a dorsal stripe along the back bone and “bars” or zebra like stripes on the upper legs, just above hock and knee.

So Dun:
Grullo (black based Dun)

WFF Coconut Chicken
Bay Dun

ER Tennessee Inn
Red Dun

AFd2d2
Liver red dun with flaxen mane and tail

SCP 1085951

Please note that the base color range for any specific darkness of Dun may be wider than you expect. Also, dun and appaloosa do some strange things together.

ObsidianKitsune · May 12, 2018 2:59 AM

((I'm just going to pop in quickly to say that het pearl DOES interact with a horses coat by lightening it up slightly. But it is ever so slightly and I only notice it on livers))

Cheers · May 12, 2018 3:23 AM

((I’ve noticed minimal lightening effect on wild bays as well, but in all of these cases it seems to be within the normal range for the color so may just be the effect of the coat rerolling when you add pearl))

Cheers · May 13, 2018 1:35 AM

Ok. Next gene is super simple.
G/g
Gray is a simple Dominant/recessive gene. Gray overrides all other base color and color modifier genes (though grays may have patterns). A homozygous gray (GG) horse will ALWAYS have gray foals.

Grays in the game will slowly white out as they age, so dark grays will slowly get darker. Grays’ portraits will refresh each year as a result.

A couple of grays:

BBF Sorcerers Siesta

DZ Lryical Blast

RM Liberty Tolls

AA ExPro Sp2

As you can see, there is some variation in the undertones of the grays based on their base color and how dark that base color is.

Cheers · May 13, 2018 1:52 AM

The next gene is Flaxen.
F/f
Flaxen is recessive, so for a horse to be flaxen it must be ff. Flaxen only shows up on red based horses. It will be silent on black and bay base colors. Flaxen lightens the mane and tail but not the body coat on red based horses. It isn’t particularly noticeable on palominos or cremellos, since the mane and tail are already lightened on those horses, but it is quite noticeable on chestnuts, liver chestnuts, red duns and liver red duns.

A Ff or fF horse carries but does not express flaxen.

ExShow Dues

But an ff red based horse shows the lighter mane and tail:

No Remorse

2G Independent Paint W8dp

ST G2 Thomas Edison B

AHH Superman L

Lucky Dun

HypxDirty

As you can see, flaxen manes and tails can cover a range of blonde shades, from straw yellow to rusty reddish to almost a silvery shade.

wendolyne · May 17, 2018 12:05 AM

Can nexus be added to the stallion ?

Cheers · May 17, 2018 12:12 AM

No. He is homozygous Axiom and Axiom and Nexus live in the same place.

Cheers · May 17, 2018 12:12 AM

And I will jump in and do the next gene here but I’m trying to cull some foals first so I can move the next batch out of my pasture!

Cheers · May 24, 2018 9:09 PM

Ok. All of my foals are out of pasture and I’m down to the last handful of fillies to cull. Let’s do this!

Cheers · May 25, 2018 1:30 AM

Sooty is the next gene. Sooty is incompletely dominant, meaning that if you have two darkening genes, the horse will be darker than if you just have one. There are two different darkening alleles at this locus, Ssty and S+. They both darken the coat but they act a bit differently.

So first, let’s look at “bright” or “Light” versions of the basic coat colors. I’m going to add buckskin and palomino to our list here because S+ does some fun stuff with them. Bright or Light coat colors are SS for no sooty.
Bright Black

LC1 Silver An Sunshine

Bright Bay

1149792ex perfect

Bright Buckskin

White Star KP

Bright Chestnut

1149795ex perfect

Bright Palomino

1W B104 p ExcSun

Het Sooty examples:
Het Sooty Black

ExShow 1150089blk1g

Het sooty Bay

ER First Wave

Het Sooty Buckskin

1156152

Het Sooty Chestnut

Showing 1150208

Het Sooty Palomino

1156201

Cheers · May 25, 2018 1:59 AM

As you can see above, just one darkening gene can make a major difference to coat shade.

Here are homozygous Sooty examples:
Dark Black

1967

Dark Bay

RW FallenStar G3

Dark Buckskin

S Wine Obsession t4

Dark Chestnut

HC Red Prince U

Dark Palomino

Painted godiva

Now, S+ also darkens the coat. But where Ssty seems to darken the coat all over, S+ seems to darken the most at the topline and less on the belly/underside of the neck. It darkens in a distinctively mottled/dappled pattern different from “normal” dapples. In addition to adding in black hairs to darken the coat, it also seems to pull out the highlights too, giving an almost golden glow especially to buckskins and palominos.

Het S Het S+:
Black

1155442

Bay:

FWR Hot Wheels

Buckskin

Showing 1168768

Chestnut

Cozy Isnt She 4

Palomino

G2 SS Wild Berry KP

Cheers · May 25, 2018 2:25 AM

S+ and Ssty are even darker

Black (which really just doesn’t change with any of the darkening genes...Smokey black, grullo and other black dilutions will, but Black is black...if I squint hard I can convince myself I see S+ mottling maybe)

1155395

Bay

Queens Wish

Buckskin

5g Dreamers Be

Chestnut (talk about a copper penny bright coat!)

X KOLEY GUACAMOLE

Palomino

Sour Cream 2

Hom S+
Black

3G Sonic Gold SxSx

Bay

1214702

Buckskin

1630661

At Buckskin

1190866

Chestnut

1236565blue ches

Palomino

1193564

S+ also does amazing things with DP. I will cover them when we get to the hidden genes!

Cheers · May 25, 2018 2:38 AM

Pangere:

Pangere slightly lightens the red pigment in a few specific spots on red based or bay based horses. Specifically it tends to lighten the muzzle and flanks/groin area. If may also lighten the lower legs and elbows/armpits.

Pangere is a simple Dominant/recessive gene.

P is dominant
p is recessive

Any horse with P and red pigment may display some level of lightening in the areas discussed above. The lightening may be very subtle or may be covered up by markings. It doesn’t affect black horses.

I find pangere a bit difficult mostly because I just ignore it in my own breeding. I’m going to demonstrate it here on a liver chestnut. We haven’t covered what turns a chestnut into a liver yet, we will so please just bear with me here. Pangere is really obvious on livers and may be much more subtle especially on lighter or diluted horses.

Plain liver

z2g DarkFire

Liver with pangere

Hi C Koolaid man

wendolyne · Jun 12, 2018 1:08 AM

What I am still finding hard to figure out is how the snowflake gene shows in a horse that is homo and one that is het. Maybe you could help me out with this in simple terms.

Cheers · Jun 12, 2018 1:12 AM

Well, snowflake doesn’t show at all if it’s het. And if only shows if it’s hom if you also have appy for it to act on.

HollowbetheInk · Jun 12, 2018 1:44 AM

I'm finding this thread so helpful, I have to comment just so I can reference it later.

Lallyhop · Jun 12, 2018 1:46 AM

If you click the star at the top right, it’ll bookmark it and you can reference it easier :D

Ellesmere022 · Jun 15, 2018 8:25 PM

This thread is perfect! Please continue explaining @Cheers

Cheers · Jun 15, 2018 8:31 PM

I will come do some more when I’m done yanking this season’s foals out of the pasture!

TaosRun · Jun 18, 2018 3:26 AM

@Cheers I love you. this is awesome, I wish I could upvote you for these explanations. Thank you so much!

Also, I just figured out what to go for, and seeing your horses, I might just have to reconsider some choices...

BurntHillCreek · Jul 15, 2018 4:56 AM

This is a great thread, Cheers! I hope more is coming soon! Having it broken down like this is making it a bit easier to figure out.

Cheers · Aug 1, 2018 3:49 AM

The next gene is silver.

Silver is a simple Dominant/recessive gene that works on all Black based (black and Agouti based) colors. It does not show up on red based horses, but red based horses with dominant silver can be entered into the silver breeders club.

Z is dominant.
z is recessive.

Z will give you a silver colored mane and tail and also varying degrees of general lightening to the body coat color. Silver works on all of the various other diluting genes, like dun and champagne. Silver also seems to increase the incidence of dapples, much like sooty can.

So, examples:

Silver Black

DS Why Why Why

Silver Bay

1339674

Silver Brown

1399631

Silver Grullo (silver black dun)

1339789

Silver bay dun

DC Prime Tobacco

Silver brown dun

1365106

Cheers · Aug 3, 2018 1:29 AM

Champagne is another simple Dominant/recessive gene that is a dilution gene. Champagne works on all base colors.

Champagne turns eyes green/hazel unless the blue of Hom cream or splash or the red of Chinchilla overrides it.

Champagne lightens the body coat color, and the mane and tail.

Champagne colored horses get special color names.

Black based champagne is Classic Champagne.
Bay based champagne is Amber Champagne.
Brown based champagne is Sable Champagne.
Red based champagne is Gold Champagne.

Ch is dominant champagne.
ch is recessive non-champagne.

Classic Champagne (check out those reverse dapples! Swoon!)

WO2 Classic Music

Classic Champagne with no dapples

NC High Lord

Silver Classic Champagne

BBF Colored Rain

Classic Champagne Dun

HE Ashes on the Moon

Classic Cream Champagne

Year55Foal5

Silver Classic Cream Champagne Dun

StormTolledo

Amber Champagne

3G SAA 1419396

Silver Amber Champagne

ER Holiday Memory

Amber Champagne Dun

3G SAAF 1458717

Amber Cream Champagne

Nobility 3G R $

Silvr Ambe Cream Champagne Dun

Colorwild

Cheers · Aug 3, 2018 1:54 AM

Sable Champagne Ata

1439387

Sable Champagne AtAt

3G1678464B

Silver Sable Champagne Ata

AS3 1459694 11c M BL

Silver Sable Champagne AtAt

z1518677

Sable Champagne Dun Ata

AS3 1459709 109c M BL

Sable Champagne Dun AtAt

CA 2145625 SaChD

Sable Cream Champagne Ata

DK3 Couronne

Sable Cream Champagne AtAt

SM 1968124

Silver Sable Cream Champagne Dun Ata

OS Monopolized Nation

Silver Sable Cream Champagne Dun AtAt
Doesn’t Exist In Game at this time.

Cheers · Aug 3, 2018 1:58 AM

Gold Champagne

SVF Snow Gold

Gold Champagne Dun

1439399

Gold Cream Champagne

AWU3 Cristeena

Gold Cream Champagne Dun

Gold Filament bm

(Remembering Silver doesn’t show on a red base, so silver gold Champagne doesn’t happen)

HollowbetheInk · Aug 3, 2018 5:44 PM

Thank you for coming back to this @cheers.

Ellesmere022 · Aug 13, 2018 7:41 PM

Thankyou for continuing this. It is making this game much easier to understand :D

Cheers · Aug 13, 2018 8:08 PM

Next gene is the Kit gene I think. Already scared about it!

Lallyhop · Aug 13, 2018 8:49 PM

Oh boy. Maybe breaking it up into multiple chunks based on type?

Cheers · Aug 13, 2018 9:04 PM

It will definitely be a multi post gene!!!

CrewCut · Aug 13, 2018 9:16 PM

Cheers, "Snow Gold", the first Gold Ch you posted, looks to also be DP.

Compare this unlikely DP Gold:

Cristal Gold Label

to this known het DP Gold:

2 Gewurztraminer

and a Freaky Friday, who ought to be homDP Gold:

RS Gyllene Galen Fredag

Cheers · Aug 13, 2018 9:39 PM

Good call. I haven’t covered DP yet and was just posting general color examples.

CrewCut · Aug 13, 2018 9:42 PM

Oh, for sure! It just struck me that she wasn't quite a typical Gold.

Cheers · Aug 30, 2018 1:12 AM

Ok y’all. So, Kit patterns. What I’ve decided to do is give you an example of each Kit pattern at each White Factor. I’m not going to show you horses with two Kit patterns mixed because we’d be here for the next 6 months...nor am I going to do an extensive discussion of Kit Lethality.

What I do want to say is that all of the Kit patterns seem to be equally dominant—Sabino doesn’t override Tobiano—but that white Factor has a huge influence on how much a pattern shows. Also, W20 is less a pattern than a modifier gene, and it amps up the expression of all of the Kit patterns and also of Splash and Rabicano.

If you want to learn more about mixing Kit patterns and the things that are risky about mixing patterns, please look at this thread for Ammits discussion of Kit Lethality:

http://hj2.huntandjump.com/forum/discussion/13757/new-kit-lethality-and-kit-mutation-load-explained#Item_23

Or look at the section of the FAQ devoted to Kit Lethality.

One more thing: like W20, Frame modifies the expression of the various Kit Patterns. I will give examples of this when we get to Frame and not in this Kit section.

Cheers · Aug 30, 2018 1:22 AM

So the first Kit Pattern is Tobiano. Tobiano is what a lot of us think of when we think of a “paint” or “pinto” horse. It involves large blocks of the horse’s base color along with large blocks of white. Generally Tobiano horses have white legs and a white markings over the withers where a saddle would go and a colored head, though obviously a minimal Tobiano will have very little white and an extensive Tobiano will be mostly white. Tobiano is pretty safe to mix with other patterns even at high expression. Tobiano is always in the GMT lab.

The notation for Tobiano is Kitto.

Tobiano White Factor None:

Free Bird Dun It

Tobiano WF Minimal

HC Diamond Sunset Show

Tobiano WF Light

III Out of Luck

Tobiano WF Medium

1336154

Tobiano WF Large

1340067

Tobiano WF Extensive

Splashed Rain G6

Tobiano has its own Breeders Club

Cheers · Aug 30, 2018 1:36 AM

Roan is the next pattern. Roan horses have white hairs speckled throughout their coat, mostly on the body and less on the head and legs. In the game, Roan has extremely variable expression that does not seem directly related to any testable factor including White Factor... Roan horses may or may not have “corn spots” or dark patches of seemingly normal coat mixed in with the roan markings, visually similar to Appaloosa spots. It has been theorized that corn spots are scars on real horses. I *think* they are genetic in the game and that you can breed for them, but I’m not sure!

Roan is one of the safest Kit Patterns as far as mixing them together goes. It has its own Breeders Club and is always available in the GMT Lab.

One roan anomaly is that black horses with roan are called “blue roan”. Think of this a little like “blue tick hounds, Blue heelers” in the dog world. These are black horses/dogs with a roan type pattern that visually look lighter than black now but not gray really either. So they’re called “blue”. In real life you will occasionally hear red roans called strawberry roans, but here in game they are red roan.

Roan is Kitr

Roan White Factor None

G2 MHF1336658

Roan WF Minimal

AR Timer is Tickin

Roan WF Light

New Instruments G7

Roan WF Medium

WR BitterSweet Moon

Roan WF Large

1358219 y

Roan WF Extensive

4g 1336842

I swear that’s the first Extensive in my search and its just random that it’s the lowest expression in the list!

Good example of corn spots:

SH 1339514

Cheers · Aug 30, 2018 1:46 AM

White Spotting 1 is the next pattern. In game it’s usually referred to as W1 or White 1. All of the white spotting genes are expressed in the color name as “white spotted —insert base color here—“. (Except W20 which doesn’t get mentioned in the color name at all).

W1 is one of the more dangerous patterns to mix because it tends to have quite strong expression. It looks similar to splash and W10, in that the bottom section of the horse is white, the top is the base color. The border between the two is usually somewhat speckled, or roanish.

W1 has its own Breeders Club and is always in the GMT Lab.

W1 is KitW

W1 White Factor None

CFF LowSpots

W1 WF Mininal

1364448

W1 WF Light

1364452

W1 WF Medium

2G A Fogged Quiet

W1 WF Large

Ladies deer

W1 WF Extensive

4g 1336843

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