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smswiere · Mar 10, 2016 8:25 PM

I have a question about figuring out how to 'test' studs or mares for DP.

I know I have a few ponies where one parent was Het DP but how do you go about testing for that Het DP in the offspring? Do you breed the offspring to chestnuts, duns or palominos to try and get the liver/chocolate color? Or do you breed to horses that already show the liver color and see if you get a double liver (black chestnut, etc.)?

fj1482 · Mar 11, 2016 3:46 AM

I've tried both. It can be very frustrating. Now we have the breed club too that kind of helps, so long as the animal is also carrying homo sty it will register in the club for most colors. I've basically have tried training my eyes to see it. For breeding I would try breeding a none DP but homo sty horse to the possible Het DP. I've bred a lot of DP and I seem to have more luck getting a liver out of a Het then trying to get a black. It might just be me but that's been my experience.

Kaquel · Mar 11, 2016 4:39 AM

If you link the horses, I might be able to help you out. DP on ee SstySsty is not too hard to spot, and I've been breeding DP bays for awhile so I might be able to help there.

RoseFlute · Mar 14, 2016 1:39 PM

I have a new bay mare I just created who seems a bit extra red/dark for a bay:

http://hj2.huntandjump.com/horse.php?horseid=393516

Is she DP? :)

Kaquel · Mar 14, 2016 1:47 PM

Is she SstySsty? If so, then I don't think she's DP. Here are some references:

Here is a SstySsty, het DP regular bay:
http://hj2.huntandjump.com/horse.php?horseid=219074

Here is a SstySsty, homo DP regular bay:
http://hj2.huntandjump.com/horse.php?horseid=248652

Here is a SstySsty, het DP wild bay:
http://hj2.huntandjump.com/horse.php?horseid=194835

Weird how he gets lighter, huh? I still haven't figured out what A+ does with DP. It doesn't seem to follow the expected trend. I'm in the process of trying to breed a homo DP A+.

Just recently I got what I think is a SstySsty, homo DP brown. Let me see if I can dig that up.

Edited to add:
Still looking for that brown boy, but here is SstySsty, het DP Ata:
http://hj2.huntandjump.com/horse.php?horseid=208212

fj1482 · Mar 14, 2016 1:51 PM

That last horse is the reason I'm going to let a few of My DP bays slip into my Copper Flame line. I love that color.

RoseFlute · Mar 14, 2016 1:53 PM

Thanks! I got a few more like her since then and I think they're just Homo sooty. :)

Kaquel · Mar 14, 2016 1:59 PM

The DP on wild bay is really...wild ahaha. I can't wait to figure out what a homo DP wild bay looks like. I'm very into DP on bay :)

So I suspect this is what SstySsty het DP on brown looks like:
http://hj2.huntandjump.com/horse.php?horseid=227303

This isn't the example I'm looking for, but this one could be SstySsty homo DP on brown. I'm not sure:
http://hj2.huntandjump.com/horse.php?horseid=250550

RoseFlute · Mar 14, 2016 2:11 PM

I had a Homo stud in with some liver mares last year. Here's what silver looks like on an at least hetero DP brown:
http://hj2.huntandjump.com/horse.php?horseid=379362

smswiere · Mar 14, 2016 2:39 PM

What about this guy? His sire is het DP and idk what his dam is (but I love that color).

http://hj2.huntandjump.com/horse.php?horseid=349171

His dam:

Kaquel · Mar 14, 2016 2:46 PM

If you reroll them, do they stay the same? It's hard to tell with the wild bays. My guess is that she is just SstySsty with no DP because
1. She looks to be the same shade as her dam, and DP foundies with showing DP are rare (although certainly possible!)
2. SstySsty wild bays are known to be buggy and to display chocolatey like your two girls.

I don't pretend to be a DP A+ expert though - I have had a hard time nailing down the expression because wild bays can be so weird. Check out Dark Stranger (posted above) and his foals for lots of examples of DP on wild bay.

RoseFlute · Mar 14, 2016 2:56 PM

Cheers breeds a lot of DP Wild bays, and they all look very red, so no, I think your horses are just sooty sooty. :)

smswiere · Mar 14, 2016 2:58 PM

Here are a few that I have questions about: they are all SstySsty

http://hj2.huntandjump.com/horse.php?horseid=387363

http://hj2.huntandjump.com/horse.php?horseid=358949 (Dam is possible het DP)

http://hj2.huntandjump.com/horse.php?horseid=346856 (Dam of next colt)

http://hj2.huntandjump.com/horse.php?horseid=387351

http://hj2.huntandjump.com/horse.php?horseid=387348

http://hj2.huntandjump.com/horse.php?horseid=387345 (also curious about her dam)

http://hj2.huntandjump.com/horse.php?horseid=382925

http://hj2.huntandjump.com/horse.php?horseid=334066 (he's slightly darker than his brown sire)

http://hj2.huntandjump.com/horse.php?horseid=352439

I know there's a lot of them! It's just hard to know what's SstySsty and what's DP (especially with a Pp or PP genes thrown in there)

smswiere · Mar 14, 2016 3:02 PM

I re-rolled G2 Spooky Crush and he looks the same (with different white markings). Cheers, would it be possible to show off one of your DP wild bays? I'm curious to see what they look like. :)

Kaquel · Mar 14, 2016 3:07 PM

I'm off to go stalk Cheer's horses! :D

To smswiere:
Assuming all of your horses are SstySsty (if they have less than that, DP exhibits as a Ssty)
1. Yes
2. Probably no, hard to say for sure
3. I think no
4. Possibly yes
5. Yes
6. Yes, and homozygous!
7. Again, tough to say, but I would say no
8. No
9. No

I am quite certain Brittle Talk carries DP! :D

RoseFlute · Mar 14, 2016 3:12 PM

#2 is just what happens when you get a single copy of Brown, or At. :) Two copies look like a bay with some sooty, but the red part is interestingly banded across the body. Lemme see if I can find a plain one...

Kaquel · Mar 14, 2016 3:14 PM

The Ata browns are very hard to tell because they show so little red. I vote no on both browns because the red is too red. I can't be certain though.

AtAt DP would be an interesting experiment to try.

RoseFlute · Mar 14, 2016 3:16 PM

These two are Homozygous At. The first one is heterozygous sooty, and the second one is homozygous.
http://hj2.huntandjump.com/horse.php?horseid=236498

http://hj2.huntandjump.com/horse.php?horseid=253899

RoseFlute · Mar 14, 2016 3:17 PM

Yeah, it would, Kaquel! :D So many dapples...

Cheers · Mar 14, 2016 3:26 PM

S S DP DP wild bay

Cheers · Mar 14, 2016 3:29 PM

DP dp Ssty Ssty wild bay

Kaquel · Mar 14, 2016 3:29 PM

Two copies of DP with no sooty should present like SstySsty. It'a interesting that that boy isn't susceptible to the SstySsty wild bay bug. Man I would have loved to see what he would look like w/ 2 copies of Ssty. I'll be keeping a close eye on his descendants!

Cheers · Mar 14, 2016 3:30 PM

and DP dp Ssty S wild bay!

I love love love wild bay. It's definitely one of my favorite colors, with and without DP.

Cheers · Mar 14, 2016 3:32 PM

SMS I'm pretty confident your Dark Talk is het DP and the wild bay buckskin is homozygous Sooty without any DP.

Spooky Crush and his mom are sooty wild bay with no DP, but I love the richness of Spooky's color! Most of my sooty wilds are a little ashy like his mom, but I love him!

smswiere · Mar 14, 2016 3:43 PM

This is so fascinating! I love the DP Ssty Ssty bays. Basically I'm in love with anything dark but not quite black. ;) every horse posted on this thread is LOVELY! Thanks for the information and the input, everyone. I have to admit, I never thought about Brittle Talk being a DP carrier since he's a rank special. I just assumed that he was only a brindle carrier. THIS IS SO COOL!

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