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Wolf735 · May 3, 2018 12:10 AM

I'm just working on establishing my show horse base right now (finally made it to 1k/day! After basically restarting and starting again right this time xD) But when I DO get to breeding... I want to breed for black livers. Specifically livers with dapples.

Which genes control livers, and black liver? And which one the dapples?

Any help or tips for starting a breeding line from the ground up correctly (rather than breeding willy-nilly for pretty colors) would be greatly appreciated!!

Cheers · May 3, 2018 12:19 AM

So DP is the hidden gene that controls liver from just dark chestnut. I’m going to link you the Ninja Liver chart under here to explain how it works.

http://hj2.huntandjump.com/forum/discussion/51257/the-ninja-liver-chart#Item_8

Regular liver has 3 darkening genes —either two Sooty and 1 DP or two DP and one Sooty. Black liver has all 4 darkening genes—two Sooty and two DP.

Dapples are mostly associated with certain genes like the darkening genes and silver, but you can also reroll a dark horse that “qualifies” for dapples and make them appear sometimes. So as long as you’re breeding for saturated colors, you can get the dapples.

As for starting a line, obviously you need red based horses instead of bays and blacks and grays. If you can get your hands on Freaky Friday Rank Specials, they all have all 4 darkening genes and will either be black or black liver. Using one of them as your stallion and having all homozygous sooty red based mares, you’ll have yourself a herd of livers quick smart! Then breed your livers to each other and 1 in 4 will be black liver, 2 in 4 will be normal liver and 1 in 4 will be plain dark chestnut.

Wolf735 · May 3, 2018 1:01 AM

@Cheers

Thank you! That's really helpful. I didn't understand what DP really was, or how it affected livers and chestnuts. (The liver ninja graphics helped too.)

Maybe a noob question from a non-new player but... the red-based horses, those are..? I'm heading into one of my own horses right now to check out the genotype and see if I can find that out.

EDIT: Chestnuts? I would have assumed bay was red-based before you said it wasn't.

And I'm in luck with the Freaky Friday stallion! This is my intact FF boy here:

1965862 FF

Now to just get my hands on some of the mares you mentioned.

Cheers · May 3, 2018 1:04 AM

So the very first gene in the color test is E/e. This is Extension. E means black, e means red. So you’re looking for ee horses—red based—instead of EE or Ee which would be black based!

I say red based because you can use chestnuts, palominos, red duns, Gold champagnes...

Your stallion is EE black instead of ee black liver....you can try to save up enough hbs to turn into GMTs to make him ee or try to trade him for an ee stallion.

ConfluenceFarms · May 3, 2018 1:23 AM

I can help you out with some sooty and liver mares to start you off! I only breed for livers, black or otherwise, so I have TONS of starter mares!

I would sell this mare for 4,000 hbs:

z PF Never Better

And this mare would cost 3,000 hbs:

z PF Dont Panic

I will also throw in a breeding to my black liver stallion, at a reduced price:

Doctor Mysterio 1G B

Haltanny · May 3, 2018 1:59 AM

If you incorporate Sooty+ into your livers, you'll get some really nifty looking dappled livers.

G3 Rhythm Crush 1680462

G2 DP One Last Goodbye B

Wolf735 · May 3, 2018 3:51 AM

@Haltanny

Ooh. They're both gorgeous but I really like the bottom one. It'd be awesome to be able to breed horses like that.

@ConfluenceFarms

Oh that would be perfect! I need 101 more points to get the last achievement, which'll give me 10,000hbs. Then I could buy those two mares from you, if you're willing to wait? And I would definitely take you up on the offer of breeding to your stud!

@Cheers

Ah okay... I'll probably try to trade him, then. I hadn't realized.

Lallyhop · May 4, 2018 7:06 PM

Another thing to look for is that we're going to be getting another Freaky Friday in July! You'll have another shot at nabbing one, and more available for trading then.

And since it seems like you're breeding drafts, I could give you straws/covers from my FF boy in the meantime if you wanted. :)

http://hj2.huntandjump.com/horse.php?horseid=1963393

WhiteMountain · May 4, 2018 7:17 PM

Lallyhop - I have been looking at your liver stallions!
Because drafts are where it's at.
Question on straws. Are they different from a live cover at public breeding- other than incurring more vet bills? Is the success rate any different?

Lallyhop · May 4, 2018 7:21 PM

Drafts ftw! The vet price of straws is different but that's it. Chances of success are still the same (well, not counting mares in pasture, because those get a bonus).

The nice thing about them is they don't count towards the stallion's "foals this season", so you can get more foals from a single stud that way. You can also (if you're premium) combine them with eggs and implant the embryo into a surrogate dam, so it doesn't count towards the dam's count either that way.

WhiteMountain · May 4, 2018 8:04 PM

Hmm - so would that be something you could do with that breedable mare with the awful PT? Use her as an embryo carrier? Am I right to assume that nothing from the carrier mare goes to the foal?

Lallyhop · May 4, 2018 8:08 PM

Yup! Exactly right. PT also is just showing related, so if you were looking for colors only and not concerned about showing, that's another use for an awful PT horse. Most people tend to want both colors and PT, though, which is why you don't see low PT horses being kept for breeding as often.

ConfluenceFarms · May 4, 2018 11:19 PM

Of course; those low PT mares will be filling up stalls in your barn, so when you see a better quality mare for a decent price, why not switch out the low PT mare. Any uterus will do! A higer PT mare will provide the uterus, AND get you her show points towards your nightly bonus!

ConfluenceFarms · May 4, 2018 11:21 PM

Wolf735, let me know when you have the cash and we can set up the sales.

Lallyhop · May 4, 2018 11:40 PM

@ConfluenceFarms Exactly! Lol, I'm only keeping this one specific mare because she has a .40 PT. I sold off a .30 PT only a few days before someone did a contest as to who had the lowest PT horse, and now I'm paranoid about missing out on anything similar in the future! :))

ColorGoodStables · May 4, 2018 11:40 PM

I didn't read everyone's comments but if you need any liver breeding stock in the future I've always got some. I'm actually starting to refine my line to focus more on liver horses so I should have spare ones to toss at you :)

ConfluenceFarms · May 5, 2018 12:11 AM

I just put a bunch of Dark Chestnut HH mares in the auction. If I were you I would wait til the auction is done and see which ones the Foundation Rescue picks up and buy them. Those horses are guaranteed to have perfect PT and Perfect breeding ability for a foundation horse. Foundation rescue ID# is 13

Wolf735 · May 6, 2018 10:40 PM

@ConfluenceFarms

I've got the money now! I can buy whenever.

@Lallyhop

That would be awesome, thank you! I think I'll just be handbreeding this season (until I get ahold of a stud) so that would be perfect. Why are we getting a FF in July? Is it a holiday create?

Wolf735 · May 6, 2018 10:46 PM

@ColorGoodStables

If you have any second gen liver mares I would be interested! Probably for next season.

Lallyhop · May 6, 2018 10:55 PM

@Wolf735

FFs are any time we get a Friday the 13th.
If you want straws/covers, just PM me!

ConfluenceFarms · May 7, 2018 12:01 AM

Wolf735 I added you to my chat room. The mares are up for sale, and the stallion is up for breeding. You are welcome to breed 3 mares at t

Wolf735 · May 7, 2018 1:04 AM

@Lallyhop

Thank you!

@ConfluenceFarms

Thank you so much! I picked up the mares, but for some reason I can't breed to the stallion. Maybe I'm just unused to where breed buttons are on other peoples' horses? On mobile too, don't know if that means anything.

ConfluenceFarms · May 7, 2018 1:38 AM

You should just be able to click on his breed to this horse link and scroll UP on the page and it will give you a drop down of all the mares you own and ask you to enter a name for the foal

Wolf735 · May 7, 2018 2:01 AM

@ConfluenceFarms

Clicked on the link to the horse, there isn't a breed button or spot on the page.

duelinghawks · May 7, 2018 4:20 AM

1966429
I'll sell this guy for 7500hbs

Wolf735 · May 7, 2018 5:00 AM

@duelinghawks

Oh he's perfect! If you're willing to sell him, I'll take him!

Wolf735 · May 7, 2018 7:07 PM

UPDATE:

So I didn't think I would get to breed this season. I figured it would be spent just in preparation. However, I was able to get my hands on a number of mares that were old enough to breed, and sort out mares that will be ready next season, and handbred a couple to an available stud to get a head start.

Thanks to your help @Cheers, @Lallyhop, and @ConfluenceFarms, I'm super excited to move forward with my first project!

Okay, so I ended up with two groups of mares. First I went through all the creates I made for point gathering when I restarted my game, to see if I had any eligible mares based on @Cheers's advice. I kept any that were chestnut and hom sooty. So that's my group of two year olds for next season:

2034059 CH STY

Then, I bought these two lovelies from @ConfluenceFarms, who were ready to breed this season:

1066561 CH STY

886356 CH STY

And after that, I searched through the sales to find two more mares that were ready to breed and fit the requirements as well (chestnuts, hom sooty):

1773892 CH STY

895745 CH STY

Then I bred them all to this handsome boy, a Freaky Friday create owned by @WestWind Stables, who met the requirements my own FF stud doesn't:

Lignite

And I got my first set of liver foals! (Agh, I'm so excited.):

2068446 LV STY G2

Easily my favorite. Intact liver chestnut girl with flaxen! Love her to death.

2068448 LV STY G2

What looks like a black liver chestnut, which was exciting, but sadly she was spayed.

2068579 LV STY G2

Second favorite, another lovely intact girl who might set a standard for what I want to breed for (color-wise).

2069300 LV STY G2

And an intact colt! Cute and unexpected.

If any of you guys have any more advice about moving forward that would be great, and if not, thank you all so much for helping! I've never committed to a project before and starting my very first line is so fun. ^^

(I still don't understand how papering works exactly, but that might be a question for another post/day.)

duelinghawks · May 8, 2018 2:44 AM

Let me know in advance what time you will be on and want me to list him for sale for you.

Wolf735 · May 8, 2018 2:46 PM

@duelinghawks

I'll be online tonight from 7-whenever, if that would work for you. I'm also online now for a couple hours, at least until 1.

duelinghawks · May 8, 2018 7:50 PM

I'll put him on tonight around the end of the auction

ChilliFireFarm · May 8, 2018 8:10 PM

I would recommend joining the liver breeders and sales chat - I am always putting liver horses in there for sale. And search the auctions for liver mares - you can often pick up bargains. My FF stallion is up for 5hb to breed to in there :)

Wolf735 · May 8, 2018 10:46 PM

@ChilliFireFarm

Okay! ^^ I will, thank you!

@duelinghawks

Okay awesome! Thank you!

duelinghawks · May 8, 2018 11:31 PM

@Wolf735 he is up for you!

duelinghawks · May 8, 2018 11:33 PM

Also as Clillifirefarm mentioned--definitely join the liver breeders chat as I put two black liver colts there today. I always prefer to offer them there instead of the public sales lists

Wolf735 · May 8, 2018 11:33 PM

@duelinghawks

Thank you so much! Just picked him up!

ElementalStables · May 9, 2018 12:55 AM

Troll through the herd helpers for the dark chestnuts, sooty flaxen chestnuts, etc. and make a bunch of mares from them. They're all guaranteed to be hom sooty chestnuts, but every once in a while you also get one that has DP and is liver! Even if you don't keep all the mares you create, you can at least troll through for the liver creates (I typically get at least one every 20-30 mares or so)

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