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Ritsika · Mar 10, 2016 9:55 PM

I have a mare I bred this season without giving her the full pasture boost. She foaled a filly, which passed all free testing intact. I was going through my mares and looking at their average foal potential when I found an 8.9, which has been my lowest by far. I saw that the mare hadn't been performance tested so I decided to check her. "Dorris frowns when you present your prospect. She seems rather put off by the animal. It is doubtful the score will be any good.
After a long day you receive your results back. Your prospect was awarded a grade of 6.5" This isn't the lowest but she is definitely lower than most of the herd. Considering the Performance Test Grade, is this a good step in the right direction?

F1 Willow Wisp The dam.
Performance Test Grade: 6.5

2G Wisp of Starlight The filly.
Performance Test Grade: 8.9

I've looked at these threads: http://hj2.huntandjump.com/forum/discussion/7148/when-should-paper-levels-increase-in-generations#Item_3
http://hj2.huntandjump.com/forum/discussion/5902/culling-the-herd-and-what-to-do-with-extras#Item_22

But I feel like, in the case of her dam, the filly might not have had the same opportunity to hit a PT of 9 or 10. Or is this not the case? I know that showing and breeding ability aren't connected; however, I like to look at PT scores for improvement for the mares since my herd is still relatively new and small.

mabelhavana · Mar 10, 2016 10:10 PM

It's completely up to you and i know people tend to do things differently. For me, I will breed the mare 3 times. If the average foal PT score is lower than I'd like, I'll consider spaying. That said, if all foals are in tact and she throws some pretty babies, I will probably keep her in tact. Her foals might be awesome broodmares or studs.

If she were mine, I'd persevere with her. Totally depends on you and what you're breeding for, though! :)

Ritsika · Mar 10, 2016 10:12 PM

@mabelhavana, thank you! I really like the idea of breeding her three times. Then I should be able to paper her and see how that goes.

Rhythm Falls · Mar 10, 2016 10:25 PM

I'm not sure what the limits are for PT. I have a 6.4 mare (http://hj2.huntandjump.com/horse.php?horseid=382527) that produced a 10.2 (http://hj2.huntandjump.com/horse.php?horseid=382933) by a C stud. Granted he was gelded, but he had a nice PT :p.

I would continue with the mare to see what she produces next time if you really like her.

Cheers · Mar 11, 2016 1:21 AM

I have a 6 year old mare with a 3.1 PT. her two living foals are a B papered 10.2 colt (gelded as excess and kept as a show horse) and a 10.3 filly, intact. I don't know what happened with her year 4 foal...

http://hj2.huntandjump.com/horse.php?horseid=345991

I have a 0.5 7 year old mare with an average foal PT of 10.13, and one of her foals is a 10.5, which is the highest gen 2 PT I've been able to breed.

http://hj2.huntandjump.com/horse.php?horseid=284509

And on the other end of the spectrum, I have an 8 year old Top Notch Producer mare with a PT of 9.9 and 4 foals with an AFPT of 9.9....hmm maybe time for some culling!

http://hj2.huntandjump.com/horse.php?horseid=299581

I agree if you like the mare, you should hold on to her and see how she does with the full pasture bonus. I haven't come up with a method of culling based on AFPT yet since I'm using the 3 strikes system, but I think I will try to go through my mares every few seasons and cull borderline girls with low AFPTs, especially by pasture.

Kaquel · Mar 11, 2016 4:31 AM

PT and breeding ability are completely uncorrelated for foundations. There isn't really any relation at all until you get to the higher gens. So your mares's PT score really has no weight whatsoever on what her foals' PT scores are.

So for example, if you have two Top Notch Producer mares, one with PT 9.9 and one with PT 1.1, they have exactly the same probability of producing a foal with PT 10.4 (assuming you hold all other variables constant). If the 1.1 mare produced a 6.6 I would not consider it an improvement, I would cull the mare :P (Actually in my example, if they were true TNP, I would wonder if something was buggy and I would check the stud haha.)

If it were me, I wouldn't cull the mare based on one foal. However, if she consistently puts out foals that are in the low 9's for PT, I would snip her. I have a ton of foundation mares and in my experience that would definitely be below average even for not using the pasture.

Ritsika · Mar 11, 2016 9:41 AM

Thank you for the wonderful help everyone! :) I will keep all of this in mind.

Baya · Mar 11, 2016 10:34 AM

My second gen pt mark must be at 9.5 or higher buts its personal opinion

Ritsika · Mar 11, 2016 11:32 AM

@Baya, that is fair. I have a 9.9 pt or higher mark for my colts to remain intact and 9.0 pt and above for mares because my herd is just developing. I hope to get everyone up to 9.9 pt and above for my second generation someday. :)

Though my question was pertaining to the filly's pt improvement compared to her dam. I didn't know if it was possible to get above 9.0 pt from such a low pt foundation mare. Now that I know I can, I will be watching this mare like a hawk on her next two foals and will spay as necessary later.

Marigold · Mar 12, 2016 6:31 PM

What is the western riding boarding places in Jasper, GA?

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