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Ammit · Sep 13, 2014 10:10 AM

I have added two new genes. These are fully creatable and obtainable right now using the create a horse page. Go Get em!

Wild Bay
A+ is dominate to all other forms of bay. It makes a horse have a lighter coat and less black on it's legs. With cream it also forms the new buttermilk buckskin color.

5% of bays will be wild bay.

Brown
At is recessive to all other forms of bay. It makes the bay gene less effective leaving a horse darker. It causes brown in conjunction with sooty.

5% of bays will have the brown gene (may be hidden)

Brown Update
The naming system in the game has changed. Horses who have the At gene and no other agouti mutations are now called browns. (AtAt SS horses are an exception they are not dark enough to be called brown). Being Sty Sty is no longer enough to be called brown in the game. The current brown horses will stay brown unless you reroll them. As soon as you reroll them (or they get rerolled for whatever reason) the color name will change to bay and the color will change to a mahogany bay shade. I know these are not what you where breeding but I think they are rather striking.

I will not rerolling your horses. If you don't want them to change don't reroll them though I can't guarantee they will stay forever. Future foals will follow the new naming system though.

Natural Shine
I have added a natural shine to all the horses in the game just to give them a bit more depth and 3d feel. All new horses will get this automatically, and if you reroll the images it will show up automatically.

These are not in the search just yet. Tomorrow I will make rerolling free for a while and add these to the search, to gmt etc.

Ammit · Sep 13, 2014 10:17 AM

If you want to create these using a herd helper the Rank 1 Hom or Het Blacks will be your best bet. Avoid bay herd helpers as they produce only normal bays.

Ammit · Sep 13, 2014 11:22 AM

This will be added to Hj1 after I am sure any bugs are ironed out so probably in a few days.

Abbey Road · Sep 13, 2014 11:37 AM

So, current brown horses will stay brown, but they won't produce brown, correct?

LookingGlass · Sep 13, 2014 11:44 AM

Based on that artwork, Abbey, it looks like the current brows will stay brown but will produce what looks like the old bays. (Which hoses anybody who was breeding browns - they'll now have to start over completely from scratch.)

neart · Sep 13, 2014 11:55 AM

This is great! Will silver be part of this yet or is that still to come?

OndowaStables · Sep 13, 2014 12:06 PM

Cool! I can't wait for these to come out on HJ1 where I can afford to go on a create spree.

PurpleSage · Sep 13, 2014 12:06 PM

Will there still be brown DHH's? Would they now become more rare or all change to the new bay color names?

Ammit · Sep 13, 2014 12:29 PM

I have done nothing with herd helpers yet. At the moment brown herd helpers are making dark bay.

Ammit · Sep 13, 2014 12:33 PM

The Sty Sty AAs are darker then old plain bays. I made a point of that.

Also I get the feeling people are starting to panic. DON'T PANIC! This is Hj2 where things get tested. There is a reason you got it first to iron out any issue. If you have a concern just post it. This is still the final draft stage of things.

LookingGlass · Sep 13, 2014 12:45 PM

From my Facebook post... is there a chance you will consider letting the horses that are brown now continue to produce the color that they are? Phenotypically they are pretty distinct, both from lighter bays (SS and StyS) but also very clearly from the At model you have up there.

I'm really, really trying hard to be excited about this gene update (I mean, free genes; who doesn't want a pair of those?) but this really kind of guts me on HJ1. I've been breeding my silver browns over there since 2009; I have six good solid generations of them in existence and facing the idea of five years worth of work is really kind of hard to swallow.

As I understand it they'll not only now be called bays (or, well, silver bays) but will now look like silver bays, and (no offense meant at all, I promise) that really kind of guts me. Let me show you what I mean:

This is the old brown/new bay:

It looks a pretty fair amount like one of the old bay variations:

In and of itself it's a pretty dramatic step from the rich deep browns we've embraced to the brighter bay shade. But then there's me..

Here's one of my randomly selected silver browns:

Which now presumably is going to be stepped back to the brighter bay equivalent that will make her look like

Which ends up looking suspiciously like

.... by which point we're in chestnut territory! >.> I know it's kind of nit-picky and stuff but I want to love the new browns and the old artwork simultaneously. Again, I don't care so much what they're called as much as I'm invested in what they look like.

KerredansCorral · Sep 13, 2014 12:57 PM

Regarding the natural shine, I love it! Noticed it on one of my horses earlier this morning, and wasn't sure about what exactly had happened, so color tested it. Of course that confused me in the fact that you had changed how the gene sequence looked for the agouti gene, lol. Glad it wasn't a bug.

Ammit · Sep 13, 2014 1:12 PM

@LookingGlass: First thing I would suggest is taking a step back. Gutted means you are probably way over emotionalizing what amounts to a trial run. There is going to be issues to work out. Deep breath. It will be alright. You have been here long enough to know I am always willing to work with players ;)

I need to point out too that silvers in general need work and will not be staying as they are. They are not accurate. They are not properly showing the ranges of the new colors yet because I did not bother with it knowing I had work to do with silver at the most basic level to start with.

This is what a full blown darkest of the dark brown with silver looks like right now

It is lighter then the silver brown you posted. So you can see silver just isn't generating colors like that right now no mater what the genes.

What is it exactly about the new color that concerns you? Knowing exactly the issue will help me figure out the best way to make sure you are taken care of.

If you are just concerned because they look different then they used to that is going to be a pretty insurmountable issue since silvers haven't really been accurate. We are going to a much more realistic system but I am more then happy to work with you do the best I can on that front. If the issue is the babies don't match the parents I can mass reroll them all for you so they fit. I get the feeling though you just really don't want them to look like chestnuts. If that is the case I ask you to just be patient since the issue lies with silver not the At gene. There is a lot we can do with silver bays that don't look like chestnuts. That solution will just happen if you give me time. :)

LookingGlass · Sep 13, 2014 1:37 PM

Of course I'm gutted! This is a five year project you're jeopardizing! *shakes fist... cane... something...*

But thank you, Ammit. I know I'm kind of irrationally panicky about this for the above reason and am trying NOT to go jumping off a cliff here.

I think maybe my issue lies in the fact that I prefer richer, darker colors and the example of the old brown/new bay you posted just looks, to my eyes, too close to all the rest of the bays (and at the extreme end, the chestnuts) for comfort. Because I spent a really long time breeding primarily for something that looked dramatically different.

The other problem is that I really like the At brown but have so much work invested already and it feels like the game is saying 'Hahah nice job now start over.' I know that is totally not your intention, at all. Maybe you can make the homozygous sooty bays even darker, somehow?

Is that silver on the old brown or the new brown? (Does this question even make sense?)

Ammit · Sep 13, 2014 3:34 PM

That silver I showed is the darkest of the dark of the new brown.

Maybe you can make the homozygous sooty bays even darker, somehow?

I think you are missing the point where I have said things are not finalized. ;) Of course we can look in to adjusting things. That is the why this is going on Hj2 first.

LookingGlass · Sep 13, 2014 3:42 PM

Alternatively you could just retroactively make all my horses the new brown instead.... *cough*

I'll sit patiently until you can get a chance to tweak stuff! :D

Ammit · Sep 13, 2014 3:52 PM

If you want to pay for that many gmts we can talk (will sell massive bulk discounts lol!)

The plain A StySty horses we can make swing darker as well but they won't be as dramatically different. (dramatically different is not the same as noticeably different) It is really important to me to update the genetics of the site and make them realistic. The silvers though is where we can can get into some really fancy looks.

LookingGlass · Sep 13, 2014 4:05 PM

Maybe if they were like 25 cents apiece... >.>

Agreed, noticeably different is different than dramatically different. Maybe if they ended up more at the end of the bay spectrum that http://hj2.huntandjump.com/horse.php?horseid=4403 and http://hj2.huntandjump.com/horse.php?horseid=10955 are? (Not necessarily as red, or with variations on that theme, or what have you.)

Ammit · Sep 13, 2014 4:15 PM

If is funny you should say that because I just did this gal up.

That is more what I am aiming for then the example horse.

LookingGlass · Sep 13, 2014 4:19 PM

That's better! It definitely succeeds in being visibly darker than the less-sooty versions of the bay. So yeah, that could definitely work. :D

Ammit · Sep 13, 2014 4:23 PM

This would not be every Sty Sty A horse but you would be able to get this dark with rerolls. It is basically the same as the old purple type browns.

XXVI Stud · Sep 13, 2014 4:56 PM

At the beginning of breeding season this year I started working at an equine hospital (just as a training technician) when I don't have college classes going on, so I've been seeing a huge amount of horses of all sorts of colors. And I have to say that these new genes look incredibly realistic based on what I've been seeing! I love it and might even start a pasture breeding program based on the new bay variations.

Ammit · Sep 13, 2014 5:49 PM

Thanks!

kintara · Sep 13, 2014 5:58 PM

Just want to say I love the new shiney look! Makes the horses look more real, less flat, if that makes sense!

kintara · Sep 13, 2014 6:00 PM

Oh and I'm really looking forward to seeing the new silver bays and browns!

kintara · Sep 13, 2014 6:02 PM

Last post for now I promise, but for someone that doesn't specifically breed for browns or bays, but has lots of them through my herds I'll love the extra variation!!

LookingGlass · Sep 13, 2014 6:12 PM

So the range for StySty bays would be regular bay through the old brownish look, but it's just kind of random? And the actual browns can't be successfully bred into the existing bays without a lot of generational fiddling? Oh boy.

Ammit · Sep 13, 2014 6:39 PM

No I found a bug when I adjusted the color and it was not showing sooty properly for the old browns. That is why it was so light.

You guys have to remember to you are seeing these things with fresh eyes I have looked at hundreds and hundreds of horse images and have been looking at them for days. You will have to forgive me if I am not catching things right off the bat. :)

LookingGlass · Sep 13, 2014 6:42 PM

No worries, Ammit; I'm still very interested in seeing the possible range when it's fixed up.

Ammit · Sep 13, 2014 7:04 PM

It is already (or at least to the point where it is going to be unless I see a reason to change it).

LookingGlass · Sep 13, 2014 7:35 PM

Ohhhh, you changed it up there. Thanks!

Abbey Road · Sep 13, 2014 8:09 PM

I cannot wait to see the new & improved silvers.... especially silver black, which currently looks greenish and odd on my monitor. Thanks for all your hard work on this!

Abbey Road · Sep 13, 2014 8:21 PM

I am wondering, if you could make it temporarily possible to GMT and "fix" a bred horse whose breeder means him to be producing brown?

PurpleSage · Sep 13, 2014 8:27 PM

My main question is will we still be able to create and breed browns? I realize all the current browns are now sooty bays and I am pretty well OK with that. It had a slight sting at first because, like LG and JDW, I have been breeding browns since I started. The new sooty bay portraits are beautiful though! So crisis averted! LOL \:D/

Ammit · Sep 14, 2014 3:53 AM

Abbey Road: Not sure what you means but no you can not wily nilly start randomly inserting At genes places.

PurpleSage: I don't quite understand what you are asking. Why would you not be able to create and breed them?

PurpleSage · Sep 14, 2014 9:01 AM

I was just asking if they are going to be much more rare. I kinda worded that wrong. Last night. My apologies! #-o

LookingGlass · Sep 14, 2014 9:05 AM

I think I read that the At gene appears about 5% of the time? But it's recessive to the other agouti variations so you may not always see it when it appears anyway.. it's gonna make it a challenge to breed the new brown into the old brown lines.

Ammit · Sep 14, 2014 10:28 AM

They both appear on 5% of bays. But not all creates are bays so it is less then that out of total colors.

LookingGlass · Sep 14, 2014 10:29 AM

Clearly the important question here is: will these genes be available in the University?

PurpleSage · Sep 14, 2014 11:04 AM

Will there be new brown DHH's created to allow us to create only browns or will we only be able to get them by chance like the wild bays? That is actually what I was trying to ask last night, but it just didn't come out right. lol

kintara · Sep 14, 2014 1:18 PM

Can we gmt them?

Deslumbrar · Sep 15, 2014 3:33 AM

Will the double creme herd helpers have the possibility to give you AtAt with the double creme?

Ammit · Sep 15, 2014 6:59 AM

Deslumbrar I made a post that should help you out.
http://hj2.huntandjump.com/forum/discussion/1523/how-to-tell-if-you-can-create-the-new-bay-genes-with-a-herd-helper#Item_1

PurpleSage: There will be but I am not ready to put that in just yet. I have changed all the former brown hhs to now say dark bay though.

PurpleSage · Sep 15, 2014 8:35 AM

Note to self: Patience grasshopper. Got it! Thanks! <):)

Ammit · Sep 16, 2014 5:45 AM

Silver Bay (Formally Silver Brown)

Abbey Road · Sep 16, 2014 7:09 AM

I was a little concerned because I spent a bunch of GMT tokens to make a silver brown frame foundie stud, but frankly I love the silver dark bay. I can't wait to see what actual silver brown looks like, has anyone made one yet?

I do have one question, will At without SSty look different from a regular bay at all?

PurpleSage · Sep 16, 2014 12:16 PM

Yes it does. I just bought this boy from Dark Star.

http://hj2.huntandjump.com/horse.php?horseid=141681

Ammit · Sep 16, 2014 1:03 PM

Glad you are liking the look. :D

All At horses (with out A or +) look different. They have a top town shading layer just like real life At horses. AtAt horses with no sooty do say bay and are bay shade but do look different.

oceanside · Sep 21, 2014 4:28 AM

Hi,
I might be just plain dumb at the moment, but I still can't wrap my head around when a horse is called bay and when brown?
I have this horse, AtAt non sooty - called bay. That is due to the missing sooty, right? http://hj2.huntandjump.com/horse.php?horseid=142246

Then there is this girl, aAt non sooty. She is called brown. http://www.huntandjump.com/horse.php?horseid=2856027

Why is the the second horse a brown?

I like the new genes, gives more variety. I just need to understand them lol

SandycreekFarm · Sep 21, 2014 4:35 AM

I think it's because the second agouti allele is recessive. I have a brown stallion whose genes show the same pattern--Ata and SS. He's also homozygous black--EE, like your second horse. I don't know if that makes a difference, though.

Ammit has explained that At diminishes the bay effect (pushing black to the mane, tail, and lower legs) and homozygous At does it twice, lightening the horse even more, making it bay.

kintara · Sep 21, 2014 4:49 AM

A overrides At, but A+ overrides both At and A

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