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I always run everything through breeding advice first since its free then run any additional testing so that if it’s altered I put the least amount of money into testing.

I have a bunch of consistent yellow papered spayed mares in Bandit1119 foundation sales holding barn that were snipped by BA. But I have a whole lot more similarly tested mares in my Foundation breeding barn. I’d close my eyes and hit the button to test. The good thing about creates is that you can always create another one.

ETA: I forgot that bandit is premium so I skip BA and go straight to Strict breeding advice. BA is gentler and I’ve had quite a few horses get through BA but not SBA

Normally i would BA first then run all tests on the intact, but she is one of my first livers- and also came out appy. I will just turn off her testing if passing BA is not guaranteed for a yellow foundation. Just seeing (untested) next to Mare irks me a little.

Thank you for the offers fallen and bandit, but I am trying to assemble a no-outside-blood line, so borrowing horses is not in the cards. While she is the first create of mine this is relevant to, if I had a definitive answer it could help going forward.

Coding wise, I am just wondering if BA and Papering are comparing the same hidden numbers of a horse. Something like:

Gold (99-90)
Blue (89-80)
Red (79-70)
Yellow (69-60)
Failed (59 and lower)

And free BA would just be the pass/fail indicator instead.

Intact (50 and higher)
Alter (49 and lower)

i.e. All passing paper pass BA but not all BA passes paper.

Let me reword my question. When it comes to creates, has anyone gone through and papered their alters? If so, does yellow/c papering crop up in the alters or do they all paper as fails?

I just ran 25 regular create mares through BA - 7 were spayed. Of those, 3 papered yellow and 4 failed. I ran the remaining 18 through SBA, 1 more was spayed and papered yellow.

Breeding Advice compares to parents, not paper level though. There is probably a benchmark number for foundations since they don't have parents, but BA is "are they about as good, better or worse than their parents". Those worse are altered by BA, and I'd assume some of those "as good as" are altered by SBA, but I'm not certain on where the cut off is.

Thank you Haltanny. I'll try the same test with my HH creates later to make sure that's not a factor either. The whole -not having parents- thing is what made me hope that g1 would be simplified to pass papers=>pass BA but you've shown that isnt the case either.

And the Mare that sparked this can just blissfully avoid BA and throw pretty garbage foals if that's all she has in her. Ha. Her first was a gelding but she was uneven with the stallion, so that didn't help.

CrewCut, I do the same thing with my foals. Standard procedure:

•Mass HH create spree.
•Mass pasture breed.
•BA everything.
•Genetic test the intact.
•Scroll through the intact stuff for keepers, paper & rename.
•Throw all the "#" horses into auction.
•Repeat.

Appy up there was just striking she got to skip the BA step out of my paranoia.

Just to throw in a bit of what I know about the underlying mathematical foundation for papering. Here's the little bit I've deduced.

We know that Perfect Foundations have 100% breeding and 100% showing ability (You notice that this is a percentage, not a hard number or even a definite range of numbers.) They paper Yellow and C under the new strict papering constraints and PT test at 9.9 always. Many years ago, a player did a study breeding Perfect Foundations and found that the range of PT scores for their foals indicated a contribution from each parent ranging from 8.9 to 10.4, the two contributions being averaged and (maybe) a random number also figured in.

I have no idea at what percentage breeding ability a horse papers Failed or Showable Only, but it might be something like 90%, or 85% or somewhere in between or somewhere even lower. Only Ammit knows for sure and she's not telling. :D

As Haltanny says, putting her in a pasture for 30+ days and giving her a C papered stallion to breed her to will, over the game years, give you an idea of what her true breeding ability might be. With only a Basic Upgrade, you wouldn't be able to flush her eggs and create embryos that way for a quicker but much more expensive answer.

I have had a couple reds not pass BA. And have heard of blues not passing. There is no guarantee in testing.