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In this Discussion
- Ammit November 2017
- Haltanny November 2017
- Montesque November 2017
- RoseFlute November 2017
- SandycreekFarm November 2017
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Cream Ineffective?
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I have a "chestnut" stallion with two copies of the dominant cream gene but yet he is still chestnut? Can someone explain this? Even the genetics guide says he should be cremello or something close. I've enclosed the link for him.
MM Simple Socks -
C is the recessive allele of the cream gene. :) The dominant version has a little r after it.
Edit: good question, because some genes are capital letters and some aren't. Cream is an incompletely dominant gene, which means that two alleles of the dominant version will act on the coat more than a single dominant allele would. :) -
The three possible alleles of the Cream Gene are:
C--non cream
Ccr--Cream: The heterozygous cream colors are Palomino, Buckskin, and Smokey Black. The homozygous cream colors are Cremello, Perlino, and Smokey Cream (Creme).
Cprl--Pearl. Must be either homozygous or paired with Ccr to express itself and appear in the color name.De gustibus non disputandum. "There's no arguing about tastes."
SandyCreek Farm: ID# 441
also playing H&J1 as SandyCreek Acres: ID# 137592 -
Okay so can someone explain why the game makers would use non-traditional ways of naming the genes? Most all scientists recognize that a capital is dominant and a lowercase is recessive. I don't mean to be rude or anything, I'm just confused. :)
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Superscript notation is the proper/scientific way to label genes. Genetics goes WAY beyond the simple dominate and recessive states they use in middle school science classes. Only very simple genes can be expressed that way. Genes like cream that are incomplete dominate or (again also like cream) have more than one mutant allele need different notation.
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Here is a scientific paper on splash white. If you scroll through and look at the pictures you can see how they label things in superscript notation.
http://journals.plos.org/plosgenetics/article?id=10.1371/journal.pgen.1002653
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Here we go. This is the scientific paper that we take our notation from. They use Ccr to designate cream.
https://link.springer.com/content/pdf/10.1186/1297-9686-35-1-119.pdf
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The C gene is the albino gene series, although horses don't have an albino allele. If you look at other species with a C gene series, they have a lower case "c" for albino. See below. If horses had a recessive albino allele, it would be lower case like in cats, but "Full color" (C) is dominant.
Horses:
C = Dominant Full Color
Ccr = Incomplete Dominant Cream
Cprl = Recessive Pearl
Cats:
C = Full Color
cb = Burmese
cs = Siamese
c = Albino#28036 -
The gene is MATP. Everything has a MATP gene and MATP can be compared between species. C is not a scientific name for any gene. It's just short for cream in horses and C can be other things in other species. You can only compare the real scientific names, never the ley person/hobbyist names.
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Looks like the "C" gene in cats is TYR not MATP (so not relevant to each other at all)
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15771720
It is worth adding that there can be many correct scientific names for the same thing. For example the actual name of the gene is SLC45A2, the protein it encodes is called Membrane-Associated Transporter Protein or MATP. SLC45A2/MATP/Cream/C etc are all fine when talking about it depending on the level of formality needed. So that alone can be confusing. And to make it worse, just because you can test for the presence of a mutation, it does not mean you know the correct name for the gene. You have to know what protein that area of DNA is encoding to know what it is comparable too in other species.
Also, and this may break horse people who have had the "no albinos" drilled into them: That whole no albino thing is nothing but breed registry politics. That is something breeders made up to get their max white/super dilute horses into registries because albino was a stigmatized term among horse people. The easiest way to prove your farm is not producing albinos is just to insist there is no such thing as an albino horse. One of the things humans get when they have MATP mutations? Oculocutaneous albinism type 4. Yes albinos can have some pigment, yes they have blue eyes. Horses have albinism by every definition EXCEPT horse people definition.
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