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Cheers · Apr 11, 2016 2:01 AM

Hey y'all!

So, we are well into pasture breeding for the season and I've been noticing something about my pasture foals, particularly in my established pastures with foundation mares in them, over the last couple of seasons. The mares have the full pasture bonus and the stallions are all AGA a rank special.

I have a really low free test alter rate, which is awesome. I usually have NO alters from Gelding Advice and from Showing Aptitude Test, but I almost always have 2-10 fillies spayed by Strict Mare Advice. Now, I find this super frustrating. I don't need a ton of colts, and I almost always get at least one colt that measures up to my standards out of every pasture, but I can actually use most of the fillies.

Am I doing something wrong? I'm culling mares via my three strikes rules and if they paper Yellow. I'm constantly rotating a few new mares into each pasture each season and it's not usually the new mares that are throwing the culled fillies.

I am not making notes about whose colts compare inferior to my benchmark and therefore using that to cull mares. Do I need to step that up, start adding that into my data? It would definitely up my cull rate because my gen 2 benchmark is pretty high.

Thanks for any help. I'm not sure what to do! Maybe this is normal! I just don't understand why I am not having colts culled too...I would think it would be pretty evenly distributed.

Abbey Road · Apr 12, 2016 6:53 AM

I can't comment on why you're losing more colts than fillies. They've been pretty even for me this season in gens 1 and 2. I doubt that you're doing anything wrong, most likely just the way the die rolls.

Are you using AFPT? It's not true in foundation or I think 2nd gen, but in going back and PTesting for another hard core cull, I'm finding that some of the mares that I altered with my three strikes rule may actually have been BETTER than the stallions I was breeding them to, so watch that.

I think Ammit tweaked mare advice, because I wasn't getting ANY foundation mares culled with it -- they were always snipped by SAT, and now that is not the case at all.

Ultimately, if SMA is culling your even sort of inferior mares before you have to spend time breeding and culling, you're ahead of the game. The only down side really is that you'll have to spend more money testing colts.

PaintsStables · Apr 12, 2016 7:22 AM

I don't do much pasture breeding by leaving mares in pastures. I want to show all my horses. Because I have so many mares that still get me points for showing, and thus more hb showing bonus. However, I agree with what Abbey said, if SMA is already culling the inferior mares. I know you have a higher standard for breeders, and probably wouldn't want them as breeders anyway. But, you will be using more time to cull your colts. That is where I am at now because I waited, I don't think I am ever going to get done gelding. :))

Ammit · Apr 12, 2016 7:52 AM

There was a bug with mare advice where the foundation horse was not a very good breeder so almost every foundation mare tested better. That was fixed but the test stayed the same.

Cheers · Apr 12, 2016 12:44 PM

So Ammit, since I upgraded and SMA tested the majority of my mares before you fixed that bug, could that mean that I have inferior mares that passed SMA in my herd and testing their fillies is catching them now?

Abbey, I PT everything and I have started keeping half an eye on AFPT this season,but I'm not really sure what I'm looking for. I cull any gen 2s that PT below 9.5 anyway, and I don't keep altered foals that PT below 10 unless they are colts that I've comparison tested. As a result my AFPTs are falsely high. What should I be looking for with a mare or stallion AFPT for each generation?

Abbey Road · Apr 12, 2016 12:50 PM

I'm still tweaking that, but I'm currently using 10 for foundations, 10.3 for 2nd gen, 10.6 for 3rd gen, 11 for 4th gen, 11.5 for 5th gen, 11.8 for 6th gen. 5 and up may change because currently a whole lot of my horses in upper gens are from B foundations, and I'm not sure my C lines will make that cut.

It's more work, but you can always make a note of culled foals' PTs in the mare's notes.

Ammit · Apr 12, 2016 12:55 PM

It would help if you posted a link to some of the spayed fillies in question. I could give you a better answer then.

Ammit · Apr 12, 2016 12:56 PM

9.6 is a normal AFPT for a 100% foundation stud or mare.

Cheers · Apr 12, 2016 4:08 PM

Ammit, here are 3 from my ice pasture that are waiting to be auctioned.

http://hj2.huntandjump.com/horse.php?horseid=413216
This girl is from a freshman mare who didn't have the full pasture bonus.

http://hj2.huntandjump.com/horse.php?horseid=413203
This girl is from a seven year old mare. Her 4 and 5 year foals are gone, probably colts I didn't need who papered B but had PTs below 10. Her 6 year old foal is gelded for papering C with a 10.2 PT and is in my show herd.

http://hj2.huntandjump.com/horse.php?horseid=413175
And this girl is an aberration from a mare who has given me lots of nice foals--everyone before this has a PT over 10.0 and is intact.

There will be a few more in my show herd but most of them went to auction and probably weren't bought unless someone picked up Nexus fillies for their shininess.

These were the 3 caught by SMA in my Ice pasture of 50 mares. No colts were gelded by GA and no one was altered by SAT in this pasture.

Ammit · Apr 12, 2016 4:20 PM

Mare quality is not the issue. Just random luck.

Cheers · Apr 12, 2016 4:40 PM

Ok y'all! Thanks! I figured that was what was going on but wanted to make sure since it seemed so one sided...

I will keep on doing what I'm doing, but I will start culling a bit harder with AFPT in established herds. On a quick glance through a few of my foundation stallions, their AFPT is in the high 9s. I know a lot of the mares I can remember off the top of my head are at 9.9 or higher...

Abbey, one more question--how many foals do you let your girls have before you cull for AFPT? 3? 5? When they paper? I will start making a note on culled foals PT next season (this season I'm working on tattooing everyone as I go since I've been slack on that!) but I do already make a note if the PT is below my cutoff of 9.5 for gen 2 foals.

ConfluenceFarms · Apr 12, 2016 5:29 PM

What is AFPT? (I'm gonna guess that it is something very obvious!)

Cheers · Apr 12, 2016 5:32 PM

Average Foal Performance Test score. Sorry, I usually try to spell them out the first time I mention them in a thread! But it's a good way to keep track of breeding performance. The PT of an individual tell you nothing about that individual's breeding ability, but the average PT of their offspring can tell you a lot about their breeding ability!

ConfluenceFarms · Apr 12, 2016 5:37 PM

LOL! I did notice that you spelled the others out in your OP, and it is VERY much appreciated! I knew it had something to do with mares, and PT scores, and now that you said it it makes perfect sense!

Cheers · Apr 12, 2016 5:45 PM

It always frustrates me when people throw around acronyms and specialized jargon with the assumption that I will understand what they mean. I find that scientists and people in the various branches of medicine are serial offenders with this and as a result I make a concerted effort to always spell it out at least once in every piece of written communication!

ConfluenceFarms · Apr 12, 2016 6:03 PM

Really, Cheers, it is SO appreciated! :D

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