HGG Community Forums

http://hj2.huntandjump.com/forum/discussion/comment/13438#Comment_13438

This may be the thread Abbey means. I will also write out my current testing and culling process (I'm new enough that it's still evolving) after I take the dog for her walk! Some of the tests and papering you may not have access to--don't worry about that. You can only do what you can do!

So, I will start by saying my process refines itself a little more every season, and that I really really try to live by the "there's always next season" mantra. I will also say that everyone has very different individual breeding goals, and your goals will inform your process.

For papering, the ranks are slightly different but appear to be equivalent between mares and stallions. Stallions paper Showable Only, C, B, A, and *Star. Mares paper Failed, Yellow, Red, Blue and *Gold. So, in theory, a B stallion and a Red mare have roughly equivalent breeding ability....but you have to remember that stallions paper purely based on their individual merit, while mares paper based on the quality of their foals, which is of course influenced by the quality of the stallions you bred them to! So a wonderful mare may paper poorly because she has a foal from a crappy stallion, while a mediocre mare may paper well because you're breeding her to a top boy. Keep that in mind when you paper.

My process starts at the foundation generation. All my horses pass GA and SAT for stallions, SMA (strict mare advice) and SAT for mares. I PT every horse I own, though at the foundation level this is just a way to help me keep my numbers down--I auction most mares with a PT under 9. I auction all newly created foundation mares that are spayed by the free tests.

When I pick a new foundation stallion, I want him to be a perfect foundation or equivalent. This means I either buy from the Foundation Rescue (owner 13), use a Rank Special create or I compare my candidates with my best rank special stallion (he has already passed free testing and papered C at this point). Most foundation stallions paper C, though every once in a while a standout boy will paper B.

When I breed my horses, of any generation, my first step after that is to check the pasture email if I've pasture bred. Whoever had the top foal, I find that foal and make a note on its page. After that, I paper any mares that now have 3 foals alive. I'm still breeding up my generations, so I'm not enforcing upper generation culling based on papering at this point but I will start to soon. At this point any foundation mare with the full pasture bonus for all 3 foals who papers Yellow is spayed. If she's a good show pony, she goes in the show barn and if she isn't, she's in the auction. Any gen 2 or up mare who papers yellow is spayed. In the next month or two I will start spaying gen 3 mares that paper Red or less.

Next I throw all the colts through GA. Anyone who is gelded, I make a note on that mare's page that reads something like "G X stallion name 34 ga" which tells me the stallion, the year and what test was failed. Then the fillies through SMA and the same thing. Then everyone through SAT and make notes. Then everyone is PTd. I have a minimum PT cutoff for each generation, but I no longer cull colts based on that number automatically....but I do the test anyway.

If I've been hand breeding, I paper and compare the colts now. If they paper below my cut off for that generation, they are gelded and a note is put on the mare's page. If they paper well, I compare them against my benchmark for that generation. If they compare as AGA, I make a note on the colt's page and they get tattooed and put in the appropriate barn. If they are inferior, they are snipped and put in the show herd. I tend to at least initially keep all good colts I hand breed, because I only hand breed if I've got access to parents I don't own or am using eggs or something similar--these are usually my most expensive foals to produce, so I want them to stay intact!

If I have pasture bred, this is where the process gets really time consuming. I will probably try to register everyone in their breed clubs at this point because I'm trying to add my color suffix to each foal's name as I go through at this point and the breed registries can help me see what patterns they may be carrying. Then I go through and name each colt, adding the color and generation at the end. Colts that I know straight off I won't use because of their color get gelded (unless they are the best pasture foal). Then they are gelding papered (papering geldings is free, papering stallions costs hbs. I try to geld and paper where I can!) and if they didn't hit my cut off, a note goes on the dam's page. I pretty much keep all my spayed and gelded foals with a PT over 10 as show ponies, but if they are under that they go to auction.

Now I go through what is left and think about what I was breeding for and what intact colts I may already have from the sires of these colts. If I already have a really nice intact colt from a sire, I may geld all his new colts automatically. Or I may be looking for a flashier son. Or I may know someone is looking for a colt, like I know this season Paints is looking for a brown gen 2 colt to replace the boy she lost at rollover. If this is a new sire or one I've struggled to get a good colt from in the past, I will hope that my best pasture foal was a colt. I will paper and compare it first, and if it doesn't measure up, everyone gets snipped. But if it's a sire I know, or if the best foal does well, it can be hard to figure out who to keep intact for testing and who to geld...this is a problem we all have to work with! I will geld any colt that papers below my cut off, no matter how splashy or cool. I also geld most colts that compare inferior to my benchmark, though occasionally I will sell or auction colts that I haven't compared still intact. Colts that I don't really need but compare AGA my benchmark are usually sold in the forum.

Side note on benchmarks--you will see these referred to a lot. Comparing colts is super expensive, so a lot of us come up with a singLE stallion in each generation that we use to compare all other stallions in that generation to. Some go for a midrange stallion, others go for a really top quality stallion--it really depends on your goals, how many mares you have to breed and how much patience you are willing to put in to get colts that compare AGA (as good as) your benchmark. My gen 2 benchmark is Lambrusco Star. He is a B papered colt that compares AGA my A papered gen 2 stallion, Dark Pearl, so he is a high B. It's tough to get colts past him. Finding a benchmark for each new generation can be difficult, but I would highly recommend that you start with the best pasture foal of your best stallion from the previous generation.

For my fillies I'm much less strict than with my colts. If they pass free testing, have a PT over my cut off and don't have any undesirable genes, they pretty much stay in my herd. I have started selling off some intact gen 2 fillies just because I have so many, but it's not because they aren't meeting my standards, it's just because I'm starting to be covered up with them!

Now, back to the mares. Remember all those notes I'm making on the mare pages? That is for my 3 strikes and you're out policy! I have 2 automatic culls for mares--any mare that papers below what I want them to after 3 pasture foals from my stallions and any mare that produces a Showable Only colt is automatically spayed. Other than that, 3 altered foals is usually their 3 strikes and they are spayed, but I have exceptions for favorite mares, mares with a high proportion of intact foals to alters and occasionally for higher gen mares I don't have many of yet. Also having your dam altered counts as a strike against younger mares.

And that's my process right now. I'm sure it will change a little more this season, especially since I have so many mares to breed and I'm starting to get much tougher on my gen 2 fillies as a result.

Good luck reading this novel! Sorry I rambled on so long!

For me, my goal is to get to the below progression.

Foundation: C, red
Gen 2: B, red
Gen 3: A, blue
Gen 4: A, blue
Gen 5: Star, blue
Gen 6: star, gold

I should note that I'm there for stallions but a long long long way off from enforcing this with my mares. It's the goal, not the reality right now!

Wow that was long. I think I will start out slow and work my way up to being stricter. My herd is barely a quarter of what most of you have so if I'm to strict I'll end up with an empty barn...or just super broke. I'll have to work up my bench mark thouth, I have at least one horse from every era but need to build them up in order to have a benchmark for each.

These are my papered stallions. The C papered horse I mentioned above were geldings.

Tested B
http://hj2.huntandjump.com/horse.php?horseid=304096

Tested C
http://hj2.huntandjump.com/horse.php?horseid=365222

I will also look at the threads you guys provided and see if I can make sense of it XD

You can't judge a horse's show potential by it's performance as a foal, or in it's first few shows as a 2 year old. Foals don't train and the 1L class has only 2 horses in it, so the results are entirely due to luck. 2L isn't much better with only 3 horses. Give them time to train and they should do fine. With PTs of 10.3, they have the potential to reach higher (and more profitable) show levels before they level off than the horses with PTs in the 9s. They may alternate between gaining 3 and 4 training points each week, instead of the 3 that horses with PTs in the 9s get, and they will likely train until they turn 10 instead of leveling off at 9.

Also, don't worry about the profit number (which is calculated as show payout minus entry fee). They money comes from the weekly showing bonus which is 75% of the show points held by all your horses. As long as the horse doesn't come in last, it will add to your show points and your bonus.

Thanks Salvistar. I was going to come back and explain that!