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In this Discussion
- AHayesHorses July 2018
- ApollosLegacy July 2018
- Cheers July 2018
- kintara July 2018
- Lallyhop July 2018
- WhiteMountain July 2018
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My foals keep getting spayed and gelded...
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What am I doing wrong? I'm trying to match red mares with A stud and yet the foals aren't breeding quality...what am I doing wrong?Breeder of the tallest drafts
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You want to match Red with B and Blue with A to match papers :) And sometimes its just bad luck that they get snipped. Are you using your pasture at all? Your mares get a breeding bonus the longer they stay in there which increases the chances of an intact foal :)
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The pasture bonus is huge. In G1-G2, if I breed outside a pasture, even with careful matching, my success rate is about 50%. With a 30 day pasture bonus, that rate goes up to about 70-75%. Even a 10 bonus helps.
(I wish there was a way you could sneak up on a mare in a pasture with a straw...)Thanked by 1supersarah -
Using the red mares with A stallions is a good way to try and get better foals than the mares, but you will get a lot of spay/gelds, especially if not using the pastures. A red papered mare is about the same quality as a B papered stallion
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@WhiteMountain lol yes! =))
@ApollosLegacy here's a sampling for you of what Ammit did to show off percentages a while back. I'm not sure if it's 100% accurate still since it was a while ago, but I doubt too much has changed.
http://hj2.huntandjump.com/forum/discussion/18836/a-working-example-of-uneven-breeding-and-pasture-bonuses-#Item_1ISO any and all Silver Pocket Watches!
God grant me the hbs to buy the ponies I need,
The fortitude to resist the shiny ones I truly don't,
And the wisdom to know there will always be more next time. -
I'd never really looked through that before, thanks for the link Lallyhop!
I do this with my foundations, I'm happy with those odds!
Test 4: Exceptionaly perfect foundation stallion (105% breeding ability) bred to 50 perfect foundation mares (100% breeding ability), 30+ days in pasture.
Results: 20 intact foals, 30 altered foals. Avg breeding ability 105%, Avg PT 10.21 -
After reading Ammit's tests:
Question about breeding boost: say yo have a PF mare and a PF stallion. The Stallion has a 5% breeding boost. Does that make him like a 105% stallion, so crossing him with a PF mare would be less effective than crossing him with an exeptional mare?
or does the breeding boost add to their secret roll total to determine foal quality? I was hoping the latter - otherwise - what good is a breeding boost? It just throws the stallion out of the mare's league. - especially if you are using a straw and not in a pasture. -
Thanks for the help everyone!!! I hadn't been using the pasture as I wanted specific mare/stallion combos but I'll be sure to utilize my pasture from here on out. I appreciate all the advice!!Breeder of the tallest drafts
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@WhiteMountain yes, it throws the stud out of the mare's league, but it also means the babies who do pass will be better quality.
If I breed a C stud to a yellow mare, I can get a yellow filly who passes SBA. I may get reds, too, but a lot of yellows will still pass. Now, if I boost that stud to a B paper, for the most part (with maybe one or two exceptions) the only fillies that pass will be red papered, and I even have better chances of getting a blue or two, but the total number of passing fillies will be less.
Alternatively, if you want to start a line with B and red foundations, you'd start with experfs and expros - but what if you want your stud to be a Freaky Friday? You can pair expro/perf mares and be pairing reds to a C, or you can boost that Freaky Friday to a B and now you have matching papers, and thus better chances of intacts.
In the long run, boosting generally means the foals that pass BA will be better quality than BA passing foals from non-boosted parents, but the tradeoff is less total intact foals. It depends on if your goal is rapid advancement of paper or maximizing intact foals.ISO any and all Silver Pocket Watches!
God grant me the hbs to buy the ponies I need,
The fortitude to resist the shiny ones I truly don't,
And the wisdom to know there will always be more next time. -
A breeding boost boosts the Breeding Ability percentage of the horse boosted. This in turn would boost the range of their individual secret roll upwards...
The secret roll is rolling two dice (one for each parent) and the foal gets the total between them. Exactly how this works for widely divergent parents (like in bootstrapping) is unknown. Shoot, I don’t really understand how it works for perfectly matched parents but it does and Ammit is a goddess and I’m so glad someone smarter than me can figure that stuff out.
Breeding boosts applied to foundations don’t totally make sense to me, but breeding boosts applied to Lined foals, especially the really special ones, to bring them up to whatever your standards are make a lot of sense to me. But that’s just how I personally breed and should not influence what anyone else wants to do.
In general, mare lag (the phenomenon of the quality of your mares collectively as a herd being somewhat less than the quality of whatever stallion you’re using) is an issue no matter how you breed. You can assume no matter what that people are probably most selective when choosing stallions to keep, since most people are keeping a tiny fraction of their total colts intact and a much much larger percentage of their fillies. There are many methods to combat mare lag, including even paper breeding, pasture bonus and culling mares by Average Foal PT. In the end, recognizing the issue and having some method that works for you to deal with it is pretty much winning that battle.
Remember that if you know you’re using a stallion that is “out of a mare’s league” you always have the option to simply not test that foal, or to Paper it but not use BA on it. This is bootstrapping and is a very legitimate way to increase the quality of your stock.
Thanked by 1WhiteMountain -
And for comparison, on this account most of my foundations for even breeding are red mares, but I only run fillies through BA, not SBA. I let papers matching the dams stay. On HJ1, my even breeding line is all experfs, a much smaller batch total, and I only let blue fillies and A colts stay. I'm much more strict, and therefore have practically nothing intact - only about three or four out of every season. However, with enough rinse-and-repeat, I'm aiming for a 3G gold/star over there. To compare to over here, I'm not expecting gold/star until about five or six generations, because I'm not as concerned as long as they pass BA. I have a lot more intacts and am able to be more selective about snipping or selling a few foals if they don't get the genes I want.
And @Cheers, though I know it's more complicated than that, for simple visuals I like to imagine each horse (or as Ammit says, not each individual horse but each quality of horse) has a range it can throw, and I imagine that range as being something like each parent rolling a die, those numbers being added together, and the total being divided by two to see what the foal gets. I'm sure it's probably more complicated behind the scenes, but it's a visual that works for me and works for both even and bootstrapping. :DISO any and all Silver Pocket Watches!
God grant me the hbs to buy the ponies I need,
The fortitude to resist the shiny ones I truly don't,
And the wisdom to know there will always be more next time.Thanked by 1WhiteMountain -
Got it! I almost always breed yellow foundations to yellpw foundations, and red to red. Then for G2, I think "high red and low red" papered, etc. The breeding boost comes up when you are using a straw - it's good to know which sort of mare has your best chance of passing with a breeding boost on the stallion!
I try to SBA my mares - unless they are special colors. I tend to use SBA to pick which of the 30 chestnut fillies to keep... -
@WhiteMountainAfter reading Ammit's tests:
Question about breeding boost: say yo have a PF mare and a PF stallion. The Stallion has a 5% breeding boost. Does that make him like a 105% stallion, so crossing him with a PF mare would be less effective than crossing him with an exeptional mare?
or does the breeding boost add to their secret roll total to determine foal quality? I was hoping the latter - otherwise - what good is a breeding boost? It just throws the stallion out of the mare's league. - especially if you are using a straw and not in a pasture.
Perfect Foundations are 100% breeding quality, Exceptionals are 105% breeding quality, so like if you gave the C papered stallion a 5% boost.
Adding that 5% boost doesn't put them out of the yellow papered mare's league, it will mean slightly less intact foals though, but also better foals on average