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In this Discussion
- Ammit March 2018
- CacheCreek March 2018
- Cheers March 2018
- Dinascar March 2018
- FallenShadows714 March 2018
- Haltanny March 2018
- HeavenlyHooves March 2018
- HunterUnderSaddleGirl March 2018
- SandycreekFarm March 2018
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Mare AFPT question
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What do you all do when a Rank Special mare or a Perfect Foundation or Exceptionally Perfect mare doesn't maintain a 9.9 AFPT? Do you spay and consign to the show barn? It just feels wrong to spay a Rank Special. I've also had a few Rank Special stallions with less than stellar AFPT.
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I would look at what she is being bred to, if the foals are consistent/inconsistent, and if all foals are kept or only the intact foals. If only intact foals are kept, then some of the altered foals could have had higher PT, and when they are removed, their PT doesn't count anymore.#28036
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I'm keeping track. Papering and Performance Testing all the foals. I don't keep low end scores but I keep records. All my mares are bred to RS stallions. That said, those are 9.9 & 10.4, and I can see a marked difference between foals from those 2 levels. I do take that into account.
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How old is the mare? How many foals has she had?Breeder of any and all crazy colored drafts and RH horses.
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It's not just one. I created a lot of them when I got a Perfect Foundation HH, shared it on the forum and created all the extras from sharing. I spread them out through my RS stallions. The ones with the 10.4s are having no problem maintaining their 9.9+. I would have thought A PF mare with a RS 9.9 stallion would have no problem bettering a 9.9 or at least maintaining a 9.9. But I'm finding a significant number of them can't maintain better than 9.7 or 9.8. The mares all started out as 4 year old creates. So they will be seven years old when they have their third foal for an AFPT score. Haven't spayed anyone yet. If they can't pull an AFPT 9.9 with a RS 9.9 stud I'll move them to an RS 10.4 for a couple of seasons before I snip.
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They throw from a range, there is no guarantee what end of the range the mare will throw during a given season. One season my 9.9 could throw a 10.5, the next I could get a 9.5. It just depends on the roll of the dice when you hit breed.
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And same for the stallion, Rank Special or not. So if they both throw from the low end that season, it's the luck of the dice as you say. Three seasons isn't really much of a run for a mare to be judged by.
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It’s not much to be judged by, but after those 3 seasons you have your fillies ready to age up, which should be better breeding quality if they passed testing. PT and breeding ability aren’t really related, but you can breed for a higher PT and hope you get it. So just because they threw a lower PT score doesn’t mean they are bad breeders. After those 3 seasons it’s really up to you on if you pull the older mares out to make room for the new girls, or keep breeding the older mares until you see what your new fillies do. Just depends how much room you have available.
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3 foals isn't really that much, and RS are guaranteed of a certain quality, so I think just give them a bit longer. Also how much of a pasture bonus do they get?Breeder of any and all crazy colored drafts and RH horses.
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I don't do pasture bonus so far. Everything I have must show as I'm still trying to build my daily bonus. I keep all speld foals 10.5+ as show ponies and also all culls that have 100+ points when spayed/gelded. I haven't bought any extra pastures. I have the basic upgrade. I'm just starting to breed a few 3rd gens now. I've been breeding 2nd gens for a while and it's quite easy to see who to cull and who to keep with them most of the time. I try to breed for improvement in both papering and PT scores. I comparison test and keep only one stallion per generation for each line. When a new young one ages up to breeding age he comparison tests against the current one. Superior stays and the other gets gelded and goes to the show barn. If they're AgA I cull based on the one I like better or sometimes the PT score if I like them both. Any colts born during a particular breeding season are weeded down to the superior one, so there is only one possible contender from each breeding season. I keep a 15 stall barn for the Gen 2 mares for each line. I use the foundation RS with create mares to keep those revolving. Eventually they should be full with pretty high quality AFPT mares as the duds get culled out and replaced. For each generation I will keep a 15 stall barn as required. All the stallions reside in the barn with the foundation RS sire. Maybe this sounds confusing. If so, apologies.
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If they aren’t meeting my standards, I usually sell them intact.
Most of my Foundation pastures are full of PF, RS and ExPro mares. I try to cull 10-15% of the mares with 3 or more foals based on AFPT each season, to make room for new stock mostly. That means I cull out PFs and RSs regularly. Remember that, like showing, breeding has a luck aspect. I know the mares have equal breeding ability as either PF or exceptional quality, but some are luckier than others...
I think as long as you are comparing apples to apples (same amount of pasture bonus or lack thereof, same quality of stallions, compare PF quality mares to PF quality and exceptional to exceptional) then you’re fine to stick. I have some normal create quality mares who are out performing PFs in some of my pastures. -
@Cheers I bought some of the mares you auctioned to raise the levels of my foals. I only had a couple red mares so hopefully this crop will be a good one.
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Surely one RS at perfect is exactly the same as another at perfect - it is the random factor and the stallion she is bred to. One horse over time will be the same as the other if both PF level. Keep her intact :)Thanked by 1KintaraContest
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True. Two perfect foundation parents can have foals with PT scores ranging from 8.9 to 10.4, I believe. Scores somewhere in the middle are the most likely.De gustibus non disputandum. "There's no arguing about tastes."
SandyCreek Farm: ID# 441
also playing H&J1 as SandyCreek Acres: ID# 137592Thanked by 1KintaraContest -
Surely one RS at perfect is exactly the same as another at perfect - it is the random factor and the stallion she is bred to. One horse over time will be the same as the other if both PF level. Keep her intact
This. AFPT is useful when you don't know and ignorable when you do know.
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