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In this Discussion
- Ammit August 2017
- CasinoStables August 2017
- DevilsParadise August 2017
- DivineDreams August 2017
- extacy August 2017
- kassierae August 2017
- NorthernStars August 2017
- Ritsika August 2017
- StarfireAcres August 2017
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Tobiano
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On this game why do some of the horses with tobiano genes not have any sort of tobiano coloring?
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Those that dont have tobiano colouring usually have a white factor of none or minimal.
Whitefactor usually has influence on how much white is expressed.DivineDreams ~ 30908
Breeder of KitM, W10, W3, Livers, Chocolates, Brown, S+, Pearl, Macchiato, Nexus, and WaterColor!Thanked by 1AHayesHorses -
Example..
F TbBlk AndromedaDivineDreams ~ 30908
Breeder of KitM, W10, W3, Livers, Chocolates, Brown, S+, Pearl, Macchiato, Nexus, and WaterColor! -
It just seems strange to me. I show Paint/Pinto horses and that wouldn't be considered a tobiano, it would be a solid.
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Lol i know. It confuddled my mind too. Im a paint/quarter horse person too. But this is how the game is. It isnt necessarily real life.DivineDreams ~ 30908
Breeder of KitM, W10, W3, Livers, Chocolates, Brown, S+, Pearl, Macchiato, Nexus, and WaterColor! -
Know that in real life, a horse can "hide" tobiano much like frame can "hide" on a solid horse. Tobiano minimal characteristics include jagged edged stockings/socks and often have small face markings, though the phenotype can be widely expressed in different ways.
Also, I'm not sure if the game has this influence, dominant extension suppresses white expression. So a black (or bay) horse with tobiano might not express the pattern as much as the same horse if it was chestnut. I hope that made sense.
Edit: The horse above clearly has a jagged edged stocking and the front offside leg has a jagged edge stocking-sock. It also has a streak of white in the tail possibly indicating a tiny patch on the croup/dock area. -
@Ritsika
Ooo Fascinating information! I was not aware of Tobiano hiding. I knew of Overo hiding! Also I had no idea of the dominant extension suppressing white. Thank you for the correction and information! Love this game so much! :xDivineDreams ~ 30908
Breeder of KitM, W10, W3, Livers, Chocolates, Brown, S+, Pearl, Macchiato, Nexus, and WaterColor!Thanked by 1StarfireAcres -
@DivineDreams, I don't like using the word hiding because a horse's genetics don't hide. It is the phenotype that varies greatly. But a convincingly plain horse can produce a loud tobiano if bred to the correct genetic combination.
I wish I could find the article where I read about dominant extension suppressing white expression. If I do, I will be sure to post the link here. -
That would be great! Thanks hun! ^:)^
*the above mare is just an example from my barn to show what @CasinoStables was talking about *DivineDreams ~ 30908
Breeder of KitM, W10, W3, Livers, Chocolates, Brown, S+, Pearl, Macchiato, Nexus, and WaterColor! -
@CasinoStables there is a new rule in the APHA, if a horse is tested to carry a white spotting pattern(splash, frame, tobiano, etc), they can get regular papers.
I know of at least one homozygous tobiano with just leg white, no body white. -
@DivineDreams, I'm starting to feel like I imagined the article about black/bay repressing white patterns because I'm having trouble finding the article. :-O I will continue the search but I can't promise success.
Though, I was able to find an article about minimal tobiano expression. Stachurska, A., & Jansen, P. (2015). Crypto-tobiano horses in Hucul breed. Czech Journal of Animal Science, 60(1): 1-9. DOI: : 10.17221/7905-CJAS
It was easily accessible though google scholar for free and an interesting read even though they are specifically looking at the Hucul breed. I thought the reference from Haase et al. 2009 was fitting as it compliments what I mentioned before, "In the case of most patterns, it is often not possible to identify the exact genotype of a white or partially white horse from its phenotype". Correct identification often involves genetic testing of the individual in question because of the vast variation in phenotype. -
The more pigment a horse has the more white markings are suppressed. .
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Need to contact me? Read this first.
http://www.huntandjump.com/forum/discussion/3/how-to-get-help-from-an-administrator -
I knew a mare growing up that was considered a solid paint. She was sorrel (chestnut) with a blaze on her face and maybe two white feet, no stocking marks or anything. But if she was bred to a colored stud, she would throw amazing foals. My favorite was a little bay and white tob with lots of color. She had 4 white legs, but above each hoof was a line of black, so her hooves were black. Beauty of a baby.
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This all is really interesting I didn't know any of what you all are saying it's really cool thanks for sharing ) in real life Tobiano/overo//splash/ paint horses are my favorite I used to own a tobiano but she was full of color and had blue eyes one eye had black eye liner around it she was beautiful
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@Ritsika it was a Facebook friend of mine that wrote the article, Lesli Kathmen, she also wrote the book about equine colour genetics called Equine Tapestry.
Now back to tobiano, unlike frame tobiano (as far as I am aware) always puts a little white on the horse, such as socks for example this guy is homozygous tobiabo
http://colorgenetics.info/equine/gallery/white-patterns/tobiano/minimal-homozygous-tobiano
Also tobiano doesn't tend to put white on the face, white markings tend to be caused by other patterns.21170 ~ Breeder of quality Liver Chestnut and Chocolate Palomino riding horses and ponies with unique twists. Specializing in Kit Promoter with fancy white patterns.
Coming soon ~ Snowflake, Nexus and Ice5 -
For some real life horse examples, here are some I found on short notice.
This APHA stallion is homozygous tobiano
Scroll down to Bear Farms Nu Genes, a heterozygous tobiano mini mare
Scroll down to PK Vino Veritas, a heterozygous tobiano friesian sport horsejoined august 15, 2013 | player ID: 250