HGG Community Forums

Hawke · Jul 11, 2017 7:44 PM

Produced this little stunner! He's most likely going to sire my 3rd gen line :D Kinda tempted to add pearl and A+ on him but unsure of what that would change..

G2 Young Warden 1039417

kisababy · Jul 11, 2017 7:57 PM

You can't add pearl or A+ on him because he's a lined horse and you can only GM genes that the parents had that he missed out on. Neither of his parents carries pearl or wild type.

Hawke · Jul 11, 2017 8:01 PM

Well thats no fun. Thanks for letting me know :p

SeekingSerenity · Jul 12, 2017 7:47 PM

He looks a lot like the little girl I got today.

WM2 Eazy Keeper

SandycreekFarm · Jul 13, 2017 12:57 PM

Hawke--This game is based on real-life genetics. Just as you couldn't breed a chestnut mare to a chestnut stallion in real life and expect to get a bay or a black, so in the game you can't add random genes to horses whose parents are already in the game.

Foundation horses are basically starting from scratch. They have no named ancestors for whom the genetic information is available. Therefore, you can add whatever genes you like, take away any that you'd like (remove an unwanted roan, perhaps), and so forth, depending on what your stable can afford to do.

Once you breed two named horses with defined gene sets together, you are logically confined to being able to add only gene variations that were present in one or both of the parents.

Hawke · Jul 13, 2017 2:42 PM

Thank you for the information. :) I'm somewhat familiar with genetics- though mostly in dogs.
I initially mistook the colt I posted to be out of my Nanotech stud who is het pearl, hence my slip up :p Not sure where the A+ came from in my head. I'm new to GMT though so I'll probably play around a bit.

Skylight · Jul 13, 2017 3:39 PM

I've bred two palominos together 3 times and got a black, a chestnut, and a cremello.

Also another pairing of chestnut crossed with pally and produced a buckskin.

Since pallys are chestnut with the creme modifier.

Both of these are Chestnut x Chestnut which resulted in black, bay, chestnut.

Aren't genetics fun?

SandycreekFarm · Jul 13, 2017 5:11 PM

Skylight, were these game horses or real horses? If they were real horses, perhaps their color name was based on phenotype (

If they are game horses can you link to these foals and were they color tested? It would be easy to get a Cremello or a chestnut when crossing two palominos, but unless there is a dominant E in one of the parents, I can't see how you got a black. Were those palominos both non-sooty and perhaps hiding DP?

If each one was ee ??(unknown agouti) CCcr SstyS while carrying one DP, you could easily have gotten ee ?? CC Ssty Ssty DPDP. My daughter reminds me that a Silver Buckskin might appear palomino.

It would be the same thing with the buckskin. One parent HAS to have a dominant E. Since chestnuts don't have a dominant E, they can hide the presence of dominant Agouti. But there has to be black somewhere in a gene set to allow for both black and buckskin.

kassierae · Jul 13, 2017 8:24 PM

It is genetically impossible for two red based horses to produce a bay or black based horse.

HighLandRacing · Jul 13, 2017 9:29 PM

Believe it or not breeding two red based horses can actually result in a black or bay. I work on a stud breeding show jumpers and eventers. I have seen some pretty wacky combos. If the Dam and Sire are both homozygous for the red based gene, some times the genetics will flip back on the grandparents of the Dam and Sire if any say had a heterozygous Br black based gene eg a bay bred to a homozygous RR red based chestnut some times the foal will take that Br gene and be black or bay. I have seen it happen they are known as throwbacks. It's really cool when you start to study them

MoonAcre Stables · Jul 14, 2017 3:39 AM

ee + ee will always = ee lol. Thats one of the easiest things to remember in horse color genetics. red + red always = red. There must be some sneaky stallion getting to mares there because its not possible.

RR isnt red and Br isnt black.

ee = red
Ee = heterozygous black.
EE = homozygous black.

Ammit · Jul 14, 2017 4:19 AM

Two reds will NEVER result in a black ever. Either the colors are being called the wrong name, or the sire is wrong. It is impossible. Genetics never flips back to grandparents. Again this is impossible and not at all how genetics works.

best friend · Jul 14, 2017 4:50 AM

I can't link here but my gelding in RL is a sorrel tobiano. He is out of a homo black stud and a bay mare. His full sister is black. Sky is registered. He has thrown us for a loop. His sire was a black overo and dam bay tobiano.

MoonAcre Stables · Jul 14, 2017 5:55 AM

Also impossible. If the sire is homozygous black he would never sire a red foal. Have you seen his color test results? Because if he IS definitely homozygous black he's not the sire of your gelding!

fj1482 · Jul 14, 2017 8:11 AM

I love conversations like this. Everyone is right. It's impossible. Something is wrong. If all these horses are color tested in RL someone is knowingly lying. If they aren't color tested then they just miss named the colors of one or more horses.

kassierae · Jul 14, 2017 8:44 AM

Equine color genetics are fairly simple and very well researched. They aren't like dog or human genetics at all, and once you get the hang of it, it's pretty easy to understand.

Extension and agouti work together to create the three base colors..
eeaa, eeAa and eeAA are red based.
Eeaa And EEaa are black based.
EeAa, EeAA, EEAa and EEAA are bay based.

You cannot get a black horse from a red x red cross, the genetics just aren't there.

You also cannot get a red based horse from a horse that is EE, as he will always pass on E.

fj1482 · Jul 14, 2017 8:57 AM

If the sir is homo black and mom is bay there are only two main colors you can get. The all black sister makes perfect since because you can only get black or bay from that cross. I don't know enough about what RL horse colors can look like but there is no way your boy genetically is sorrel but maybe he looks like it even though genetically he's bay.

MoonAcre Stables · Jul 16, 2017 8:44 AM

I see people get chestnuts and silver bays mixed up sometimes. Especially as foals.
At least in miniature horses which is where I see tons of horses of all colors and tons of crosses every year lol. But Im sure its been done in full sized horses too I just havent seen it since minis are my breed and my focus is mostly on them lol.

Best friend only mentioned that the sire was homozygous black but not that he was just black (Im assuming he is) But if by chance he was silver black its possible that the gelding in question is silver bay tobiano mistaken for a chestnut tobiano. I wont know unless I see pictures though. That would be the only explanation if his sire is who they said he was. Otherwise the breeder fibbed or didnt know the mare was covered by another stallion.

Hawke · Jul 16, 2017 9:08 AM

@kassierae Thank you! I was curious about the base color genetics. I've been reading up on here and some other sites and am getting a clearer idea of how things work :)

Members log in here:
Username:
Password:
By hitting the above you signify that you agree with our rules and conditions.
Forgot your password?

HGG Community Forums

Join our discord server!

Howdy, Stranger!

Categories

In this Discussion

Who's Online (0)

Join our discord server!

Enlarge Your Pastures

Reminders!