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In this Discussion
- Cheers July 2017
- RainTree July 2017
- RunFarAway July 2017
- WindwardFarm July 2017
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Who to keep
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How do you decide which colts to keep intact when breeding ability and color are almost identical?
I continually get blessed with good quality intact colts, 14 from this season alone though I haven't papered all of them yet. There are 20 colts gen 2 or higher and most of them are almost identical. What are some other things that I could use to cull them? -
I take the colts I like then I comparison test them to their father. If there are a few superior to their Sire then I look at pt score and looks.
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These are the 3 primary studs I need to cull from. I will know more once I paper them all. Color and looks are tough because I like them all! haha
http://hj2.huntandjump.com/adv_search.php?runsearch=1&status=any&ageg=&agel=4&agee=&erag=&eral=&erae=&heightg=&heightl=&heighte=&boneg=&bonel=&bonee=&f_basic=pt&f_adv=level&f_limit=25&stallion=1&bty=1&lined=lined&foundation=1&name=&name_lm=like&color=&color_lm=like&owner=29342&owner_lm=like&breeder=&breeder_lm=like&sire=858325&sire_lm=like&dam=&dam_lm=like&barn=&barn_lm=like&pasture=&past_lm=like&tattoo=&tat_lm=like&tat_and=and&club=&bc_lm=like&bc_and=and&e1=&e2=&a1=&a4=&a2=&a3=&f1=&f2=&p1=&p2=&s1=&s2=&s3=&c1=&c2=&c3=&d1=&d2=&g1=&g2=&ch1=&ch2=&z1=&z2=&sa2=&sa1=&kit1=&kit2=&kit3=&kit4=&kit5=&kit6=&kit10=&kit11=&kit12=&kit7=&kit8=&kit9=&sp1=&sp2=&sp3=&spM=&pax31=&pax32=&rb1=&rb2=&o1=&o2=&l1=&l2=&ice1=&icei=&ice2=&ice3=&ice4=&ice5=&ice6=&ice7=&ice8=&ice9=&ice10=&ice11=&ice12=&ice13=&nexn=&nexx=&nexr=&nexg=&nexb=&brindle1=1&brindle2=1&wf1=1&wf2=1&wf3=1&wf4=1&wf5=1&wf6=1
http://hj2.huntandjump.com/adv_search.php?runsearch=1&status=any&ageg=&agel=4&agee=&erag=&eral=&erae=&heightg=&heightl=&heighte=&boneg=&bonel=&bonee=&f_basic=pt&f_adv=level&f_limit=25&stallion=1&bty=1&lined=lined&foundation=1&name=&name_lm=like&color=&color_lm=like&owner=29342&owner_lm=like&breeder=&breeder_lm=like&sire=+918190&sire_lm=like&dam=&dam_lm=like&barn=&barn_lm=like&pasture=&past_lm=like&tattoo=&tat_lm=like&tat_and=and&club=&bc_lm=like&bc_and=and&e1=&e2=&a1=&a4=&a2=&a3=&f1=&f2=&p1=&p2=&s1=&s2=&s3=&c1=&c2=&c3=&d1=&d2=&g1=&g2=&ch1=&ch2=&z1=&z2=&sa2=&sa1=&kit1=&kit2=&kit3=&kit4=&kit5=&kit6=&kit10=&kit11=&kit12=&kit7=&kit8=&kit9=&sp1=&sp2=&sp3=&spM=&pax31=&pax32=&rb1=&rb2=&o1=&o2=&l1=&l2=&ice1=&icei=&ice2=&ice3=&ice4=&ice5=&ice6=&ice7=&ice8=&ice9=&ice10=&ice11=&ice12=&ice13=&nexn=&nexx=&nexr=&nexg=&nexb=&brindle1=1&brindle2=1&wf1=1&wf2=1&wf3=1&wf4=1&wf5=1&wf6=1
http://hj2.huntandjump.com/adv_search.php?runsearch=1&status=any&ageg=&agel=4&agee=&erag=&eral=&erae=&heightg=&heightl=&heighte=&boneg=&bonel=&bonee=&f_basic=pt&f_adv=level&f_limit=25&stallion=1&bty=1&lined=lined&foundation=1&name=&name_lm=like&color=&color_lm=like&owner=29342&owner_lm=like&breeder=&breeder_lm=like&sire=919390&sire_lm=like&dam=&dam_lm=like&barn=&barn_lm=like&pasture=&past_lm=like&tattoo=&tat_lm=like&tat_and=and&club=&bc_lm=like&bc_and=and&e1=&e2=&a1=&a4=&a2=&a3=&f1=&f2=&p1=&p2=&s1=&s2=&s3=&c1=&c2=&c3=&d1=&d2=&g1=&g2=&ch1=&ch2=&z1=&z2=&sa2=&sa1=&kit1=&kit2=&kit3=&kit4=&kit5=&kit6=&kit10=&kit11=&kit12=&kit7=&kit8=&kit9=&sp1=&sp2=&sp3=&spM=&pax31=&pax32=&rb1=&rb2=&o1=&o2=&l1=&l2=&ice1=&icei=&ice2=&ice3=&ice4=&ice5=&ice6=&ice7=&ice8=&ice9=&ice10=&ice11=&ice12=&ice13=&nexn=&nexx=&nexr=&nexg=&nexb=&brindle1=1&brindle2=1&wf1=1&wf2=1&wf3=1&wf4=1&wf5=1&wf6=1 -
I would comparison test them to their sire and see who is superior. Then go based on pt :)
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I start by culling based on SBA (BA if you don't have SBA), paper level and inconsistency. I don't allow my breeding horses to be inconsistent, but if I have a particularly special colt colorwise I may allow it to go through the rest of my colt testing and spend a GMT if he makes it to the end.
If you don't have a benchmark stallion for that generation, compare to sire or to the best stallion at the sire generation. Anyone who is a AGA gets snipped--they aren't improving your line significantly.
If you have more than one that is Superior, you can compare them to each other. Hopefully one will be superior to his brothers and you can keep that one. Alternatively, you could compare them to something you already know is better--you could compare Bay Watcher's sons to one of your B papered ExP stallions for instance, or your colts from ExP stallions to a low A gen 3.
If you still have more than one colt, and you can't separate them based on color, many people choose to snip the colts with a higher PT. Those colts will benefit more from the show bonus and be a better show pony for you, while having a slightly lower PT won't hurt your stallion because his primary job is as a baby maker. -
However, I would strongly recommend that you finish Papering all your colts, especially your boys from your ExP stallion, before you do any Comparison testing. With any luck you have some A colts in there. If you have an A, I would make having all of your B gen 2 colts AGA that A as your goal. This is doable, even with non-boosted parents.
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Cheers has given you some wonderful advice so there's not much else to add. The one thing I will say is that if you're looking at your colts that you got from breeding to outside stallions, a mid level B papered 2G colt would be perfectly acceptable for that, assuming that both parents are ordinary non boosted foundations. It's pretty difficult to get a high B papered 2G colt that's AGA a low A papered colt from 2 ordinary foundation parents if you're having to breed without any pasture bonus.
I'd assume that if you bred to an outside stallion it's because he has some sort of gene or trait that you want to incorporate into your breeding stock and you don't own your own stallion with that gene to breed to instead. In these cases, a mid level B papered 2G colt should be just fine since a mid B is still a big improvement in quality if the parents are C X Yellow. Then if you get a superior colt later on you can always snip the mid level B papered one. But I wouldn't snip the mid Bs unless you already have a high B, because if you have to breed to only outside studs to get this gene, you may never get that high level B since you won't ever have pasture bonus. This is assuming that both parents are ordinary or perfect foundations, if you're breeding 2 exceptional foundations together then you should really be expecting A papered colts even if you're breeding to outside studs. -
Yes! All of my advice assumes in-house breeding, preferably with full pasture bonus. I am willing to be much more lenient with straw or egg breedings and with crosses to outside stallions.
And as Windward has pointed out, no point in snipping everything and leaving yourself with nothing to breed to. That said...keeping colts you know aren't up to snuff "just until I breed a better one" can be a trap. Remember you're breeding your next generation of broodmares from that inferior colt, which will have knock on effects for you all the way down that line. Set a deadline, or breed mares to a better colt from another line. I got stuck doing this with my original Nexus line and wasn't seeing an increase in quality at gen 3 and couldn't figure out why. I had to go back and completely revamp my foundation pasture to fix the problem. Don't let it get out 3 or 4 generations before you try to fix the problem!
All of that said, please note that my primary breeding goal is an aggressive increase in breeding quality with each generation...I would rather have the best possible Breeders at any cost, including color. Most people have a more balanced view!