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Skylight · Jun 24, 2017 3:34 PM

I ended up with two of these mares. Love the color. Do you think she's a liver with flaxen mane and tail? No money to color test and she got spayed so will be going off to auction. Just wondering what you think.

993615

BlueJumpingBean · Jun 24, 2017 3:45 PM

I would call flaxen for sure, I would believe liver as well.

OakCreek13 · Jun 24, 2017 3:45 PM

When I saw it it looked like a chocolate palomino but I'm not to good with colors so don't take my word lol I thought liver was a little darker?

BlueJumpingBean · Jun 24, 2017 3:52 PM

This is a Choco Paly

Dark Coal 2G

BlueJumpingBean · Jun 24, 2017 3:56 PM

Examples of liver

329046
(Most Similar to yours)

KcTabled DNS

329094

Livers can also be in other coat color: red duns and red roans

Skylight · Jun 24, 2017 3:58 PM

I ended up with a matched pair too bad they both failed BA. :( I do like the lighter mane against a darker body. If it were a real horse I'd say chocolate silver dapple.

My other livers dont have lighter mane and tails.

OakCreek13 · Jun 24, 2017 4:07 PM

Makes sense Blue thanks for the picture examples lol I always need a picture to see :))

Cheers · Jun 24, 2017 4:14 PM

She's liver with flaxen. I love that color!

This was my first DP Sire. He was black chestnut (DP DP Ssty Ssty) and flaxen. If you look at his babies you will see a variety of other flaxen livers.

Red King DP

BlueJumpingBean · Jun 24, 2017 7:44 PM

@OakCreek13 so do I! It always helps that is why I always try to find examples!

StarfireAcres · Jun 25, 2017 10:44 AM

This mare is simular but does not have flaxen

Queen Frost

Waldgraf · Jun 25, 2017 10:46 AM

It does look like Queen Frost is flaxen. The flaxen gene is recessive so only shows when the genotype is ff. And it looks like that's what she has!

StarfireAcres · Jun 25, 2017 10:48 AM

And Cheers Red King does not have flaxen either he is ff like my mare if he had flaxen he would be fF or FF the discoloration in the tail is just the chestnut showing threw not flaxen I have asked this question before lol :)

StarfireAcres · Jun 25, 2017 10:49 AM

Edit but I thought ff means they don't carry that gene when the letter is capital is when the carry the gene

Waldgraf · Jun 25, 2017 10:55 AM

In most cases, you're right. We see the effects of the gene mostly when it's dominant and the letter is capital. Dun, for instance, is only apparent when the capital "D" is there.

Some traits are recessive. This means that we must have two lower case letters for them to show. Flaxen is one of them. We must have two ff for them to show the flaxen color. Satin is, I believe, also recessive. A horse only shows satin if the genotype is sasa. Sasa or SaSa don't show any effects.

StarfireAcres · Jun 25, 2017 11:03 AM

Oh wow I get it now thank you so when there are two FF the horse is not carrying flaxen? So cool I learn something new everyday thank you :)

Waldgraf · Jun 25, 2017 11:06 AM

Correct! FF doesn't show the flaxen coloring. Ff doesn't show the flaxen coloring, but it carries the potential for flaxen in the little f. It might produce a foal that shows flaxen (ff) if bred with another Ff or ff horse.

StarfireAcres · Jun 25, 2017 11:11 AM

Ok cool so this mare is flaxen even tho it does not show

Exotic Treasure RS

Waldgraf · Jun 25, 2017 11:16 AM

Correct! She's flaxen because she has the two ff. And, because her base color is ee (chestnut), she is actually showing it. The effects are just not as obvious because her color is diluted. However, her tail is lighter than if would be if she were FF or Ff.

StarfireAcres · Jun 25, 2017 11:22 AM

Ok cool now this is my mares mate he is FF right now so i want to turn him to ff so his and her foals that are black liver will have orange or yellow flaxen tails this is exiting I always wonder what caused the Orange tails on livers..I'm glad I learned this before I bred this guy lol

Magical Texas Tea

Waldgraf · Jun 25, 2017 11:26 AM

Correct! If you make him ff, when he's bred to Exotic Treasure, all the foals will be flaxen. If you make him Ff, about half of the foals will be flaxen (ff) and half will be (Ff).

As you GMT him, you should see that changing one F to f should cause no change. When you change the second F to f, you'll see the mane and tail become lighter!

StarfireAcres · Jun 25, 2017 11:31 AM

That is so cool!! Omg thank you to teaching me this I'm so excited!!

StarfireAcres · Jun 25, 2017 11:39 AM

Look at this mare though she does not have flaxen but her tail is yellow it's so weird lol

Dreamy Midnight 2g

Waldgraf · Jun 25, 2017 11:45 AM

You're welcome! I love this stuff!

With that filly, I suspect the lighter hair is a result of the Cream gene that makes her palomino. It made the hair lighter to the yellow. If she were ff, her hair would be even lighter and closer to white.

SandycreekFarm · Jun 25, 2017 2:29 PM

Yep, it's definitely the Cream that gives her the light tail and mane. She's a palomino, at base, after all., and they always have creamy or white tails. Of course, the DP and Ssty that make her a Chocolate Palomino make it less obvious that she IS palomino under the darkness.

StarfireAcres · Jun 25, 2017 4:27 PM

Ok thank you it just threw me off because her tail should be white or the color of her dark brown body I have never seen one with a yellow tail lol

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