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Building Breeding Line Strategy
  • As a new player, I've been having fun building up my stable of foundation horses. I've quickly discovered the lottery-esque quality of pushing that new foal button is highly addictive!

    However, I've started dipping my proverbial toes into the breeding realm to build my own line. I've, so far, tried two strategies:

    1 - Breed high PT stallions and mares from my own foundation stock (who pass the breeding test) to, hopefully, gradually increase their quality over time.

    2 - Breed a high PT mare (passed breeding test) to a much higher quality stallion that's available for stud.

    My assumptions are:

    Opt 1 allows the G2 foals to have parents that are of more even quality but the improvement is gradual.

    Opt 2 has the potential of producing a foal of higher quality than crossing two of my foundation breeders but the quality of the parents would be noticeably uneven. It also seems they're more likely to not pass the breeding test since it's unlikely they'd be better than their sire.

    So far, I've produced 3 foals and all are show prospects rather than breeding prospects. I assume this isn't abnormal. However, are there strengths or weakness to either of these strategies that I haven't considered?
  • What an intellectual question, Waldgraf. I want to start off by saying welcome! After playing for a week, you appear to have a good grasp on the ebb and flow of HJ2. And yes, you can expect a lot of snipped foals. That is the way of the breeding game. You have your good foals and your bad foals, but they can all be shown. Now I'll get to your question.

    Strategy 1: At the foundation level, PT score is not indicative of breeding quality. I can't recall the discussion or the exact explination - I do think @SandycreekFarm was the supplier of this information - but essentially the PT score is a number that indicators how many points a horse will have added to its show score when you train it. You don't see a relationship of PT score meaning good breeding quality until the higher generations (seventh or eighth). What is important is to watch the average foal PT score (also known as AFPT). AFPT is calculated by adding up the PT scores of a horse's foals and dividing by the number of foals. This a great indicator of the breeding ability of any stallion or mare and you want to see about a 0.4 increase per generation - this is a strict but obtainable goal.
    9.9
    2G 10.3
    3G 10.7
    4G 11.1
    5G 11.6
    6G and up 12 or higher

    Strategy 2: Again, PT score is not necessarily an indicator of breeding quality. Breeding quality is most easily determined by papering stallions and mares, then breeding like qualities together. C/Yellow, B/Red, A/Blue, and Star*/Gold*. Though each paper level has a certain spectrum in and of itself: a high, mid, and low quality to a single paper level.

    If you are looking to get great quality show horses, I would definitely opt for strategy 2 because the higher the PT score the better the horse will be as a show horse. They will earn points at an earlier age and train faster than a foundation horse. But I wouldn't expect many intact offspring if you are breeding too unevenly. The new testing system doesn't give much wiggle room for breeding uneven quality, such as a exceptional foundation to a regular create foundation.

    If you are looking to build a breeding line, I would suggest investing in a basic upgrade such that you will be able to paper your horses. This gives a great step up in your game. You can purchase a basic membership with game money or real money. This will allow you to gauge the breeding quality of your horses and pair them accordingly for the best possible outcome of intact foals.

    Here is an excellent example done by Ammit of the importance of breeding even quality together: A working example of uneven breeding and pasture bonuses.

    I hope this helps. Feel free to ask more questions because this is a complex topic of discussion and there are multiple ways to accomplish breeding goals.
  • I would do number 1, mainly because you would still get a whole lot of altered horses.

    Ritsika makes a good point by doing it by AFPT and not pt. As a matter of fact if you search your horses, their AFPT will come up if they have a certain amount of foals (3?) on the ground and tested.
    Producer of Volcanic Glass Drafts. Lapisobsidianus.
    Prices are almost always negotiable.
  • Remember too that higher PT isn't necessarily a better show horse, it's just that they will be able to train higher and show at higher levels, not necessarily good at it! Sometimes those lower PT horses can do very well! So starting with foundations and keeping those spayed/gelded foals can still get you some great horses as you work your way up to increasing quality through the generations!
  • Thank you for all the information! I did a basic upgrade last night and did some mass papering. Not surprisingly, all of my foundation stock were C / Yellow. One of my foals was Red but altered. She had been the offspring of my foundation / higher level stud, confirming the drawback-iness.

    A couple of follow up questions have come to mind. I've noticed in a couple of threads and in the FAQ, there's mention of a breeding ability percentage. For example, there's mention of a perfect foundation with 100% breeding ability. How does one know what a given breeding horse's percentage is?

    Also, do you routinely paper foals, even if they don't pass the breeding inspection? I realize it isn't very effective for it's intended purpose; the foal won't be breeding, so breeding quality won't factor in. But, knowing the results gives some indication of the quality of the cross between the parents. So, I can see a potential advantage but haven't figured out if it's worth the investment of the test and was curious what others' approaches were.

    Again, thank you for the help!

  • I can't answer some of your other questions but papering is free if the horse has been altered so I usually do it anyway. But if a foal has been altered by breeding advice, their paper score is usually lower than their parents :)
  • There are only a few horses that you can be SURE of the breeding score/percentage: Perfect Foundations and Top Notch Producers are 100%. Exceptionally Perfect and Exceptional Producers are 105%. Some Rank specials are ExPerfs and ExPros, but not all. Horses that have had breeding boosts have an additional 1% per single boost, or there is also a 5% boost token you can buy. Other than that, the Breeding score/percentage is random, and only Ammit (the game creator and resident goddess) knows what it is. Generally we look at the AFPT (Average Foal Performance Score) and papering to make a decision about overall/general breeding quality.

    I like to paper the spay/gelds just to see where I need to improve the quality. I don't do it a lot, but if there is a question in my mind I'll go ahead and test so I have as much information as possible to make a decision.

    Here's my Links List, you might find some tips buried in there: http://hj2.huntandjump.com/forum/discussion/15736/links-list#Item_3
    image
  • So, you only know their breeding score if they're one of the Herd Helpers identified as such? I did create a couple of those - in hind sight, I probably should have noted them as such!

    Awesome, thanks!
  • All herd helpers have a tattoo of one type or another. If you do a search for Tattoo = Top Notch Producer, Owner ID = yours, it will show you which ones are which. Then do it again for Perfect Foundations, Exceptional Producers, and Exceptionally Perfect. Those are the 4 (that I can think of!) that will have higher percentages.
    image
  • Oh thank you! I was able to hunt them all down!
  • And if you have a few RS and want to know what they're equivalent to, here's a list that tells you!

    http://hj2.huntandjump.com/forum/discussion/8431/rank-special-dhh-list-new-and-current#Item_30
    Producer of Volcanic Glass Drafts. Lapisobsidianus.
    Prices are almost always negotiable.
    Thanked by 1ConfluenceFarms
  • Unfortunately, I don't have any rank specials, yet. However, I'm optimistic I will. I'll keep that link handy for future reference!
  • Well if you find a RS that you really like you could always try the auctions. I got a First Snow RS for only 3900!
    Producer of Volcanic Glass Drafts. Lapisobsidianus.
    Prices are almost always negotiable.
  • I have one quick follow up question. How long do stallion breeding straws last?

    Thank you!
  • Unless the seller puts an expiration date on them they last forever. I don't know that a whole lot of people do, but you should probably always check when you buy them, just in case.
    image
  • I just want to say I love this thread. These are some questions I've had but haven't posted.

    Is there a way for individuals to "pin" posts for later use?
    Thanked by 1ConfluenceFarms
  • @RedDeeFarms, if you are on the on the computer, each discussion on the forum has a clear "star" at the upper right corner. You click that and it will turn yellow and you will be able to see a quick link to the thread on the right side of your screen when you are on the forum.

    I am unaware of the ability to do this on the mobile phone. Maybe another member knows how/if you can?

    EDIT: Whoops! It is on the left. I was on mobile while writing the reply, so I was going off my memory.
  • There is an outline of a star just to the left of the thread title. Click it and it turns yellow. It will put the thread in a list titled My Bookmarks along the right hand side of the screen when you are on the forum. I have DOZENS saved!
    image
  • So...I came traipsing back in here to ask another Noob question and was all prepared to offer a grin and a: "sorry for yet another question." But, it sounds like the thread has been useful elsewhere, so I'll ask it with head held high!

    I've been reading a lot of the other Help threads to absorb the answers to others' questions. From what I can gather, there are two common factors people take into account when choosing which horses to breed: Paper grade and evenness of generations on either side.

    Paper grade makes sense; from the above conversation, it sounds like breeding yellow to C, Red to B, etc is the best strategy.

    How important is evenness of generation? If you have a B grade 2G stallion, does breeding it to a Red papered 3G mare produce a lower quality foal than a red 2G mare? Or, is it more a perceptions thing?
  • I think we are going to find perceptions on "even" breeding shifting now that we can paper mares at birth. You used to have to wait until a mare had three living foals to paper her. Now we don't have nearly as much guesswork in determining a mare's quality.

    So prior to the change there was a big focus on breeding "even" in the game under the assumption that, for example. a 3rd gen mare and 3rd gen stallion have a good chance of being similar breeding quality and that provides a good chance of producing a baby that will pass testing intact. In reality though that 3rd gen mare could be yellow papered and your stallion could be A papered and you would have a big mismatch in breeding quality, resulting in mostly spayed and gelded babies. Now we can know for a fact what ability our mares are in relation to the stallions and we can find breeding matches accordingly. In this scenario knowing my mare is yellow and my stallion is A, it would be better to find a blue mare for my A 3rd gen stallion and a C stallion for my yellow 3rd gen mare.

    So at this point I have decided I am not going to care what "Generation" a horse is. I will be breeding C stallions to yellow mares, B stallions to red mares, A stallions to blue mares, and *star stallions to *gold mares. Regardless of Generation.

    Regarding a 3rd gen red mare vs a 2nd gen red mare: a red is a red no matter how many ancestors it has. All red mares fall into the same quality range and I would treat them the same in my breeding program.
    SALVISTAR PERFORMANCE HORSES
    Barn ID - 2358
    Thanked by 1Ritsika
  • That makes a lot of sense! I can see how it would have more of an impact with the old system. Thank you!

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